John the Baptist and Reincarnation

[JK8619]

I recently read some posts that seem to indicate that although resurrections are a part of Judaism and Christianity, reincarnation is not. This is also what I was taught growing up. I never really thought of reincarnation as being a part of Christianity, but I am a bit uncertain when it comes to the topic of John the Baptist and Elijah.

Elijah was supposed to return before the Messiah (Jesus). I don’t remember the exact verses, but I recall in at least one of the gospels that John the Baptist denied being Elijah, while in another Jesus declared that John was in fact Elijah. Also, most descriptions of John seem to imply that he was Elijah.

Is it possible that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah and had no prior knowledge of his past life? Even if it is not God’s regular policy, would it be likely that he would reincarnate a person for a special circumstance?

Any (name removed by moderator)ut would be appreciated.

Thanks,
JK

 

[Cachonga]

In the Gospel of Luke, we see that the angel Gabriel told Zachariah that his son would go "in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17). This is not reincarnation, and God doesn’t use reincarnation at all (unless Heb 9:27 is wrong).

Hope this helps.

Pax!

 

[GEddie]

Elijah could not have reincarnated, for the simple reason that he never died but went to Heaven alive (2 Kg 2:11).

Whoever JB was, he could not be the reincarnation of someone who was alive.

ICXC NIKA

 

[JK8619]

In the Gospel of Luke, we see that the angel Gabriel told Zachariah that his son would go "in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17).
Pax!

Thank you for the response. Could you explain what this means?

 

[bogeydogg]

Remember Jesus said John is the Elijah who is to come if you can bear it. In other words although we may have hard time understanding because of the prophecy in Malachi but the fulfillment was the spirit that Elijah had and the power of Elijah who made straight the way of the LORD. So it is not reincarnation although Christ’s word seems to indicate that some were anticipating that very thing.

God Bless

 

[JK8619]

Elijah could not have reincarnated, for the simple reason that he never died but went to Heaven alive (2 Kg 2:11).

Whoever JB was, he could not be the reincarnation of someone who was alive.

ICXC NIKA

If he went to heaven, while there, would he have retained his earthly body or had a physical body at all? Even if he did, God, being capable of anything, could have lifted his soul from one body to another.

I am not trying to argue for reincarnation, I am just trying to understand.

JK

 

[GEddie]

If he went to heaven, while there, would he have retained his earthly body or had a physical body at all? Even if he did, God, being capable of anything, could have lifted his soul from one body to another.

I am not trying to argue for reincarnation, I am just trying to understand.

JK

He kept his human body because one can’t be alive without it.

The living cannot be reincarnated, even in theory.

 

[JK8619]

He kept his human body because one can’t be alive without it.

Do you know if this is the official teaching of the Church or if there even is an official teaching on what form you take in the after life?

Most people I know believe that you either receive a more perfect body in heaven, or else you become a purely spiritual being.

 

[GEddie]

Do you know if this is the official teaching of the Church or if there even is an official teaching on what form you take in the after life?

Most people I know believe that you either receive a more perfect body in heaven, or else you become a purely spiritual being.

The official teaching is that, having died, you receive a “spiritual body” (Greek: pneumatikon soma; 1 Co 15). This does not occur, however, before your death as a human being.

To be humanly alive requires the human “natural body” (Greek: psychikon soma), the bodies you and I are breathing in now, and which body (soma), according to Scripture, Elijah took into Heaven. He did not die. The writer of Hebrews states that “By faith Elijah was taken up so that he should not see death.”

Again, even if Our LORD’s teaching allowed for reincarnation, it cannot happen without death.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Julia_Mae]

Here is the relevant section in Matthew:

Chapter 11

1
When Jesus finished giving these commands to his twelve disciples,* he went away from that place to teach and to preach in their towns.
2

• a When John heard in prison* of the works of the Messiah, he sent his disciples to him
  3
• with this question, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we look for another?”
  4
  Jesus said to them in reply, “Go and tell John what you hear and see:
  5
• the blind regain their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the poor have the good news proclaimed to them.b
  6
  And blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.”
  Jesus’ Testimony to John.*
  7
  As they were going off, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, “What did you go out to the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind?c
  8
  Then what did you go out to see? Someone dressed in fine clothing? Those who wear fine clothing are in royal palaces.
  9
  Then why did you go out? To see a prophet?* Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.
  10
  This is the one about whom it is written:
  ‘Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you;
  he will prepare your way before you.’d
  11
  Amen, I say to you, among those born of women there has been none greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.*
  12
  From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence,* and the violent are taking it by force.e
  13
  All the prophets and the law* prophesied up to the time of John.
  14
  And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah, the one who is to come.f
  15
  Whoever has ears ought to hear.

 

[Julia_Mae]

From the 1st chapter of John, what the Baptist says about himself:

19* And this is the testimony of John. When the Jews* from Jerusalem sent priests and Levites [to him] to ask him, “Who are you?”
20

• he admitted and did not deny it, but admitted,o “I am not the Messiah.”
  21
  So they asked him, “What are you then? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not.”* “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”p
  22
  So they said to him, “Who are you, so we can give an answer to those who sent us? What do you have to say for yourself?”
  23
  He said:
  “I am ‘the voice of one crying out in the desert,q
  “Make straight the way of the Lord,”’

Re: reincarnation, those who claim it are rarely born knowing about it.

 

[Skye_Ariel]

I believe God can do anything He so chooses, I won’t limit what He can or will do. Some Bible verses says it is appointed to all men once to die, yet God allowed special circumstances with Elijah who never died, as well as with the others whom He raised from the dead like Lazerus who then died twice. So I won’t put God in a box, anything is possible. Plus when the deciples mentioned to Jesus that some thought He was different people reincarnated, Jesus never said anything to them about the idea of reincarnation being totally out of the question, He just simply asked them and whom do **you **say that I am. So I know reincarnation is not a part of Catholic teaching, but I also won’t put limits on what God can or won’t ever do. But there is no absolute proof of reincarnation and I can understand why the church doesn’t teach it. But with God, anything is possible.

 

[GEddie]

I believe God can do anything He so chooses, I won’t limit what He can or will do. Some Bible verses says it is appointed to all men once to die, yet God allowed special circumstances with Elijah who never died, as well as with the others whom He raised from the dead like Lazerus who then died twice. So I won’t put God in a box, anything is possible. Plus when the deciples mentioned to Jesus that some thought He was different people reincarnated, Jesus never said anything to them about the idea of reincarnation being totally out of the question, He just simply asked them and whom do **you **say that I am. So I know reincarnation is not a part of Catholic teaching, but I also won’t put limits on what God can or won’t ever do. But there is no absolute proof of reincarnation and I can understand why the church doesn’t teach it. But with God, anything is possible.

Actually, we don’t know that Elijah won’t die at a later time, I.e., during the end of the world. So we don’t know yet that he is an “exception” as you are suggesting.

The fact remains that JB could not possibly be the reincarnation of Elijah, and that reincarnation (although God could “make it happen”) forms no part of the Gospel, and really makes no sense if you think it through anyhow.

ICXC NIKA

 

[COPLAND_3]

I put this article together a few years ago

In Matthew 11:14 it appears that Jesus is saying that John the Baptist is Elijah. I will show what Jesus meant by His statement concerning John and Elijah. But before I even begin to explain this passage, I do want to say that the conclusion is that John the Baptist was not literally Elijah, my explanation is based upon Scripture and insights from the Early Church Fathers.

Jesus was speaking figuratively, not literally; both are forerunners to Christ

Elijah is prophesied to come right before the 2nd coming of Christ in Malachi 4:5 in order to prepare the way for Him. St. Augustine points out that John the Baptists’ ministry to prepare the way for the Lord’s 1st coming prefigured Elijah’s ministry in the future. Here is what St. Augustine said…

Because the Lord Jesus Christ wished in him to prefigure His own advent, and to say that John was in the spirit of Elias. And what John was to the first advent, that would Elias be to the Second Advent. As there are two advents of the Judge, so are there two heralds. The Judge indeed was the same, but the heralds two, but not two judges. It was needful that in the first instance the Judge should come to be judged. He sent before Him His first herald; He called him Elias, because Elias will be in the second advent what John was in the first. [Tractate on John 4.5]

The blessed Theophylact agrees by saying,

For both the Forerunner and Elijah have the same ministry. The one was the Forerunner of the first coming, while Elijah will be the forerunner of the second coming. Then, showing that it is an enigma that John is Elijah, and requires wisdom to understand it, He says: 15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Thus urging them to ask and to learn. [Commentary on Matthew]

In the Gospel of John 1:21, John the Baptist was being interrogated by the Jews, and they asked him if he was Elijah, and John said “no.” That may seem to have contradicted what Jesus said in Matt. 11:14; but in the same explanation above St. Augustine points out….

Rightly therefore, John spoke literally, while the Lord spoke figuratively. [Tractate on John 4.5]

John the Baptist was in the spirit and power of Elijah, not body and soul

Perhaps this is the most important distinction to make. To believe that John the Baptist was a reincarnated Elijah would not be sound Christian doctrine. But Tertullian gave an Old Testament example of what it means to be “in the spirit and power.”

How, therefore could John be Elias? You have your answer in the angel’s announcement: And he shall go before the people, says he, in the spirit and power of Elias (Luke 1:17)— not in his soul and his body. These substances are, in fact, the natural property of each individual; while the spirit and power are bestowed as external gifts by the grace of God and so may be transferred to another person according to the purpose and will of the Almighty, as was anciently the case with respect to the spirit of Moses. Numbers 12:2 [Treatise on the Soul 35]

St. Jerome points out that it is bad doctrine to understand that they are the same person literally….

John then is said to be Elias, not according to the foolish philosophers, and certain heretics who bring forward their metempsychosis (reincarnation), or passing of the soul from one body to another; but because (as it is in another passage of the Gospel) he came in the spirit and power of Elias, and had the same grace and measure of the Holy Spirit. [Aquinas Catena]

It is common to call people by names of those who share the same ways

St. John Chrysostom gave wonderful examples of how people were called by the names of those who shared the same methods and styles. He said…

He calls John, Elias, with regard to the manner of his administration. Yea, and so the prophets used to call every one of their approved kings, David; and the Jews, rulers of Sodom, Isaiah 1:10 and sons of Ethiopians; Amos 9:7 because of their ways. For as the other shall be forerunner of the second advent, so was this of the first. [Homilies on Matthew 57]

 

[Candescent]

Here is the relevant section in Matthew:

Chapter 11

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence,* and the violent are taking it by force.e
13
All the prophets and the law* prophesied up to the time of John.
14

What does this mean- that the kingdom of heaven suffers violence? I can guess at answers, but I’d like to know the Catholic understanding of this and quote and that ‘the violent are taking it by force.’

 

[mcrow]

Thank you for the response. Could you explain what this means?

It seems to mean, IMO, that John the Baptist wasn’t Elijah but was to be akin to Elijah.

Elijah fled Isreal and was in the wild and starving and it happens again at mt. Horeb, somewhat comparable to John. Also, Elijah wore a hairy garment when he met the messengers of Ahaziah, which compares to John’s camel hair clothing and being the messenger of the Lord’s coming.

John was so close in many ways to the stories people of the time heard about Elijah that many just simply thought he was Elijah. However, John himself says he was not Elijah. He was sent to execute the role of Elijah, so was confused as being him but was not.

 

[thistle]

I recently read some posts that seem to indicate that although resurrections are a part of Judaism and Christianity, reincarnation is not. This is also what I was taught growing up. I never really thought of reincarnation as being a part of Christianity, but I am a bit uncertain when it comes to the topic of John the Baptist and Elijah.

Elijah was supposed to return before the Messiah (Jesus). I don’t remember the exact verses, but I recall in at least one of the gospels that John the Baptist denied being Elijah, while in another Jesus declared that John was in fact Elijah. Also, most descriptions of John seem to imply that he was Elijah.

Is it possible that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah and had no prior knowledge of his past life? Even if it is not God’s regular policy, would it be likely that he would reincarnate a person for a special circumstance?

Any (name removed by moderator)ut would be appreciated.

Thanks,
JK

Belief in reincarnation would be heresy. The Church teaching is clear that there is no reincarnation.

CCC 1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives:** “It is appointed for men to die once.” There is no “reincarnation” after death.**