John the Baptist conceived without sin?

[divinefaith]

I just heard this from my Godfather. Is this true?

 

[Paul_theApostle]

From Internet-

June 24 is the Feast of the Birth of Saint John the Baptist, the cousin of Christ who leapt in his mother Elizabeth’s womb at the Visitation, when the Virgin Mary came to share with her the good news she had been given at the Annunciation. Traditionally, Catholics have seen John the Baptist’s leap as a type of Baptism, and thus believe that he is one of only three people born without Original Sin–Christ Himself and the Blessed Virgin being the other two. (The difference, of course, is that both Christ and the Virgin Mary were conceived without sin, while John the Baptist was conceived in sin but cleansed before his birth.

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I never knew this myself…

 

[yablabo]

I just heard this from my Godfather. Is this true?

It’s only been stated that Our Blessed Mother was given such singular privilege.

Ineffabilis Deus is the document in which you’ll find the solemn judgment regarding that matter. papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ineff.htm

However, there is some talk that St. John the Baptist was given the privilege of being sanctified in his mother’s womb. I personally do not ascribe to that position for reasons illustrated here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8270648&postcount=16

 

[divinefaith]

From Internet-

June 24 is the Feast of the Birth of Saint John the Baptist, the cousin of Christ who leapt in his mother Elizabeth’s womb at the Visitation, when the Virgin Mary came to share with her the good news she had been given at the Annunciation. Traditionally, Catholics have seen John the Baptist’s leap as a type of Baptism, and thus believe that he is one of only three people born without Original Sin–Christ Himself and the Blessed Virgin being the other two. (The difference, of course, is that both Christ and the Virgin Mary were conceived without sin, while John the Baptist was conceived in sin but cleansed before his birth.

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I never knew this myself…

Thank you for that. I always thought it was only the Virgin Mary (aside from Jesus Christ) who had no sin. But the explanation of how he was cleansed before birth makes sense.

I would still question whether or not He had any consequences from Original sin the same way we (the rest of the human race) does.

 

[Saburo]

I have never heard this and can’t imagine why it would be necessary.

 

[Dorothy]

It sounds plausible to me that the Christ Child in Mary’s womb sanctified John in Elizabeth’s womb.

In Luke 1:15 when the angel spoke to Zechariah he said: “…He will be filled with the holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb,…”

I believe John the Baptist still had to contend with the effects of original sin, just as we do even though we are baptized.

 

[puzzleannie]

I just heard this from my Godfather. Is this true?

It is not Catholic teaching. There is pious speculation that the account in Luke of the Visitation where John lept in the womb of his mother Elizabeth who greeted Mary as the mother of the Savior indicates he was cleansed of original sin at that moment and hence born without sin, but that is also not a defined dogma.

 

[RyanBlack]

Some Orthodox believe that St. John the Forerunner was conceived without sin, but it is not universally accepted.

 

[Jkimbo]

Much speculation has been made regarding John the Baptist, some believe that in addition to be cousins, and born without sin, that he was also a immaculate conception by the Holy Spirit,

But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren; and they were both well along in years.

That’s a stretch indeed! I think we do need to be careful reading between the lines. Certainly God Blessed them even tho they were both well in their years with a child!

All we know for sure is what the Angel told Zechariah.

for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.

John would be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.

Also why would John the Baptist still be in need to be Baptized by Jesus? Interesting is Luke places John in prison before Jesus was baptized.

I too am interested in what others have to say and what the Church’s official position is.

My question would be why does Luke place John in prison before Jesus gets baptized?

 

[Dorothy]

In Luke 3:19 it seems to me that Luke is summing up what is known of John the Baptist, not that he is reporting him in prison before he baptized the Lord.

 

[Crumpy]

what difference would all this make, anyway? We already call him St. John. Isn’t that enough? really?

 

[divinefaith]

what difference would all this make, anyway? We already call him St. John. Isn’t that enough? really?

The Church always knew the importance of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Does that mean we shouldn’t have known of her Immaculate Conception?

 

[Jkimbo]

what difference would all this make, anyway? We already call him St. John. Isn’t that enough? really?

Well I think it’s pretty cool that Jesus and John were not only cusins but also coneived in a similar way! Blessed be to St John!

 

[juno24]

Well I think it’s pretty cool that Jesus and John were not only cusins** but also coneived in a similar way**! Blessed be to St John!

I think you have misunderstood something. John the Baptist was not conceived by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus was.The angel simply told Zechariah that he and Elizabeth would have a child. There is no indication that this was done in anything but the natural manner. Was it a miracle that the barren Elizabeth was suddenly not barren? Of course, but that does not mean the conceived in the same manner as Mary.

 

[Dorothy]

I think you have misunderstood something. John the Baptist was not conceived by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus was.The angel simply told Zechariah that he and Elizabeth would have a child. There is no indication that this was done in anything but the natural manner. Was it a miracle that the barren Elizabeth was suddenly not barren? Of course, but that does not mean the conceived in the same manner as Mary.

Correct!

 

[TimothyH]

It is not Catholic teaching. There is pious speculation that the account in Luke of the Visitation where John lept in the womb of his mother Elizabeth who greeted Mary as the mother of the Savior indicates he was cleansed of original sin at that moment and hence born without sin, but that is also not a defined dogma.

That it is simply pious speculation may not be totally accurate.

St. Louis de Montfort stated that St. John the Baptist was sanctified in his mother’s womb by Christ.

-Tim-

 

[Dorothy]

That it is simply pious speculation may not be totally accurate.

St. Louis de Montfort stated that St. John the Baptist was sanctified in his mother’s womb by Christ.

-Tim-

And Scripture appears to agree with St. Louis de Montfort.

It sounds plausible to me that the Christ Child in Mary’s womb sanctified John in Elizabeth’s womb.

In Luke 1:15 when the angel spoke to Zechariah he said: “…He will be filled with the holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb,…”

 

[Jkimbo]

I think you have misunderstood something. John the Baptist was not conceived by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus was.The angel simply told Zechariah that he and Elizabeth would have a child. There is no indication that this was done in anything but the natural manner. Was it a miracle that the barren Elizabeth was suddenly not barren? Of course, but that does not mean the conceived in the same manner as Mary.

Correct, bad wording. But God’s hand was involved because she was barren.