John the Baptist (Elijah)

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Was John the Baptist actually Elijah or was he in the spirit of Elijah? My sense is he was in the spirit of Elijah because John the Baptist denied being Elijah when asked by those the Jewish authorities sent. But I could be wrong. What are your thoughts?
 
Pee said:
Christ might answer your question in Matthew 11, 14.
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Note that he was not saying he was Elijah the person body and soul or just the soul see John 1:21 where John directly denied being Elijah and in Luke 1:17 is referred to as the spirit of Elijah.

I’m guessing “spirit of” means, likeness. John wore the same garment as Elijah and if I’m not mistaken was very similar in personality.
 
In the spirit of Elijah, as in the same sort of fellow, the same kind of messenger. John was not a reincarnated Elijah.
 
Sacred_Heart said:
Was John the Baptist actually Elijah or was he in the spirit of Elijah? My sense is he was in the spirit of Elijah because John the Baptist denied being Elijah when asked by those the Jewish authorities sent. But I could be wrong. What are your thoughts?
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To begin with I would firstly go by the teaching of the CC which emphatically denies ‘reincarnation’. That eliminates the possibility of John being a rebirth of Elijah. Now I can easily deduce that he is another foretold prophet similar to Elijah in his mission and zeal.

Recall that our Lord is also foretold by Moses to be the Prophet like himself: The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. (Ex 18:15)

Jesus is similar to Moses in a sense: Moses gave us the Law and Jesus fulfilled it and also taught us how to fulfill it.
 
Will Elias truly come again?

“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.”

Petrus Romanus, perhaps?
 
Trevor_Stamm said:
Note that he was not saying he was Elijah the person body and soul or just the soul see John 1:21 where John directly denied being Elijah and in Luke 1:17 is referred to as the spirit of Elijah.

I’m guessing “spirit of” means, likeness. John wore the same garment as Elijah and if I’m not mistaken was very similar in personality.
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See that’s what I was guessing, that he was the spirit of; but that’s got me wondering what exactly does that mean. I mean what exactly is the relationship between Elijah and John? What exactly are those similarities and can they be found in scripture? Can Elijah be compared to John to show clearly what the “spirit of” means?
 
bmullins said:
In the spirit of Elijah, as in the same sort of fellow, the same kind of messenger. John was not a reincarnated Elijah.
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Do you think he was his twin? not in appearance.

Reincarnation was another reason why I thought it meant in the spirit of. I couldn’t imagine reincarnation being incorporated into Christianity.
 
ivebeenshown said:
Will Elias truly come again?

“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.”

Petrus Romanus, perhaps?
Click to expand...
Read the two following verses and you’ll get your answer.

So you read the prophecies of St. Malachy, eh? I’m still speculative about them but the next Pope will either fulfill it or disprove it. Though, some say that it does not necessarily mean the next will be Peter of Rome but however many between Benedict and Peter. I think that’ll just be a weak copout, but that’s just me.
 
Pitcharan said:
To begin with I would firstly go by the teaching of the CC which emphatically denies ‘reincarnation’. That eliminates the possibility of John being a rebirth of Elijah. Now I can easily deduce that he is another foretold prophet similar to Elijah in his mission and zeal.

Recall that our Lord is also foretold by Moses to be the Prophet like himself: The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. (Ex 18:15)

Jesus is similar to Moses in a sense: Moses gave us the Law and Jesus fulfilled it and also taught us how to fulfill it.
Click to expand...
Do you think Elijah and John are twins? not in appearance.
 
Sacred_Heart said:
See that’s what I was guessing, that he was the spirit of; but that’s got me wondering what exactly does that mean. I mean what exactly is the relationship between Elijah and John? What exactly are those similarities and can they be found in scripture? Can Elijah be compared to John to show clearly what the “spirit of” means?
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The similarities:

Malachi 3:23-24
23 Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day,
24
6 To turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the land with doom. Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day.

Luke 1:13-17
13
But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John.
14
And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth,
15
for he will be great in the sight of (the) Lord. He will drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will be filled with the holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb,
16
and he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.
17
He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord.”

Putting the two quotes, one from the Old Testament and one from the NT, together, we get a teacher of love and righteousness and a herald (announcer) of the near-approach of the Messiah.

Jesus specifically told His disciples that John the Baptist was the ‘Elijah’ prophesied by Malachi. Elijah then, is a type for John. Elijah preached repentance and righteousness, as did John: “Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand.” John preached in the same power and spirit as Elijah of old. but they are separate individuals.

Interestingly, another ‘Elijah’ is to come before Jesus returns. Again, this is not the actual Elijah, but one who will preach in that spirit and power. So Elijah is a type or prefiguring for John, and both Elijah and John are types or prefigurings of a person who will come just before Jesus returns.

God bless you.
 
Desmond Birch, in his Trial Tribulation and Triumph has a section devoted to the teaching of some Fathers regarding the return of Enoch and Elias in the last days. If this thread is still live I will dig it out and share the goodness.
 
beehumble said:
The similarities:

Malachi 3:23-24
23 Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day,
24
6 To turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the land with doom. Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day.

Luke 1:13-17
13
But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John.
14
And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth,
15
for he will be great in the sight of (the) Lord. He will drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will be filled with the holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb,
16
and he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.
17
He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord."

Putting the two quotes, one from the Old Testament and one from the NT, together, we get a teacher of love and righteousness and a herald (announcer) of the near-approach of the Messiah.

Jesus specifically told His disciples that John the Baptist was the ‘Elijah’ prophesied by Malachi. Elijah then, is a type for John. Elijah preached repentance and righteousness, as did John: “Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand.” John preached in the same power and spirit as Elijah of old. but they are separate individuals.

Interestingly, another ‘Elijah’ is to come before Jesus returns. Again, this is not the actual Elijah, but one who will preach in that spirit and power. So Elijah is a type or prefiguring for John, and both Elijah and John are types or prefigurings of a person who will come just before Jesus returns.

God bless you.
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Can you point me to where this third Elijah is referenced in Scripture please?
 
Trevor_Stamm said:
Read the two following verses and you’ll get your answer.

So you read the prophecies of St. Malachy, eh? I’m still speculative about them but the next Pope will either fulfill it or disprove it. Though, some say that it does not necessarily mean the next will be Peter of Rome but however many between Benedict and Peter. I think that’ll just be a weak copout, but that’s just me.
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St.Malachy is good only between the time of his death and the time his ‘writings’ were found. After that he’s a bust.🤷
 
Big_Ro said:
Can you point me to where this third Elijah is referenced in Scripture please?
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Matthew 17:11-12 is one place, in my opinion. Also, many theologians believe that signs given in Scripture for the coming of the Messiah (first coming of Jesus) actually apply most times to the second coming as well. So an 'Elijah" would be expected for each of the two comings.

Matthew 17:11-12:
*
He said in reply, “Elijah will indeed come and restore all things;
but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands.”*

Malachi is another place, for its speaks of an Elijah who will come before the great and terrible Day of the Lord (ie the Last Day):

Malachi 3:19-24 of NAB version of Bible:
*
For lo, the day is coming, blazing like an oven, when all the proud and all evildoers will be stubble, And the day that is coming will set them on fire, leaving them neither root nor branch, says the LORD of hosts.
But for you who fear my name, there will arise the sun of justice with its healing rays; And you will gambol like calves out of the stall
and tread down the wicked; They will become ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day I take action, says the LORD of hosts.
Remember the law of Moses my servant, which I enjoined him on Horeb, The statutes and ordinances for all Israel.
Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day,
To turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the land with doom. Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day.*

Interesting that in speaking to Saint Faustina about the Second Coming, Our Lady also used the word ‘terrible’ for that day:
*You have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy.
  • (Diary 635) Our Lady speaking to Saint Faustina
ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/coming.htm

Remember it is not actually Elijah, but somebody in the spirit and power of Elijah - the actual Elijah is a type for both John the Baptist and this other “Elijah” type who comes at the end.

God bless you.
 
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