John the Baptist - Jewish or Christian?

[porthos11]

I always wonder why John did not follow Jesus during but perhaps it was because he wanted Jesus to be better known rather than being a ‘distraction’. Although not documented in the bible is it possible they met occasionally?

How would John do that from prison?

 

[KMC]

A lot of good statements above but the Catholic Church started at Mary’s conception

I’ve not heard that before. I have heard that Mary was the first Christian, but Jesus’s first use of ekklesia (Church) is in Matthew 16, when Jesus declared Simon to be the “rock” upon which He would build His church.

 

[Krisdun]

John was not in prison when he baptised Jesus…

 

[Krisdun]

Some others claim Pentecost was truly when the church was born

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Some others claim Pentecost was truly when the church was born

It’s not a “claim”. The Catholic Church teaches, officially, that Pentecost is “the birthday of the Church”, in other words when the Christian Church (which is called the Catholic Church today) came into existence. Prior to that day, the Church was foreshadowed in various ways, and it was part of God’s plan that it would come to exist, but it did not yet exist.

Jesus telling Peter that “upon this rock I will build my church” is part of the foreshadowing. Note that Jesus says he WILL build his church. The church isn’t built yet. Nor has Jesus started the building process. That all came later, at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came down upon the Apostles and they began to preach the gospel.

 

[Dovekin]

However, John the Baptist died long before the Resurrection & never experienced all the sacraments, teachings & miracles of Christ.

Did he experience Baptism?

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

However, John the Baptist died long before the Resurrection & never experienced all the sacraments, teachings & miracles of Christ.

Did he experience Baptism?

I don’t know. That’s why I said “never experienced all the sacraments,” because I don’t know if he was ever baptized in the Name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

 

[porthos11]

Dovekin:

phil19034:

However, John the Baptist died long before the Resurrection & never experienced all the sacraments, teachings & miracles of Christ.

Did he experience Baptism?

I don’t know. That’s why I said “never experienced all the sacraments,” because I don’t know if he was ever baptized in the Name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

Well given that he was dead before Trinitarian baptism was instituted…

St. John the Baptist was the last prophet of the Old Testament.

 

[Convert3]

I know Stephen was the first martyr after the Resurrection, but why wasn’t John the Baptist considered the first martyr?

 

[Justin_Mary]

Our redemption began at Mary’s conception, but if the Catholic Church had begun then, Mary and Joseph would not have been living out their lives as observant Jews and raising Jesus in the Jewish faith.

I’m not saying the Church started at Mary’s conception. But if we see the Church as the fulfillment of Israel, a continuation of the faith of Abraham… something to think about.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Stephen was the first Christian martyr. Obviously there were Christians before he died, given that he was one of them, and not the only one either.

But they weren’t called “Christians” until much later. They were Jews who believed the messiah came, died, & rose again.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But if we see the Church as the fulfillment of Israel, a continuation of the faith of Abraham… something to think about.

This is not about “How We See the Church”.

The Church teaches that the Church began at Pentecost. We don’t get to just have our own opinions of “When the Church Began” and tell our opinion to others like it’s some sort of a fact.
We’re supposed to provide the correct Church teaching in our responses.

 

[Justin_Mary]

This is not about “How We See the Church”.

The Church teaches that the Church began at Pentecost. We don’t get to just have our own opinions of “When the Church Began” and tell our opinion to others like it’s some sort of a fact.
We’re supposed to provide the correct Church teaching in our responses.

The Church teaches she is the new Israel.

& again, I clearly stated I’m not saying the Church began at Mary’s conception.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

What does that have to do with the Church teaching on when the Church began?

I’m out.

 

[porthos11]

What does that have to do with the Church teaching on when the Church began?

I’m out.

I remember a thread a year or so ago from someone offering that question as a guessing game, toyed around with the responses, then made that claim that the Church started with Mary’s conception, based on a flawed reading of a Church or papal document; I don’t recall which (could have been Munificentissimus Deus or something similar).

That thread went downhill pretty fast, and I think its originator has been since banned.

 

[Genesis315]

I would say he was a Jew who remained faithful to the covenant by receiving Christ in faith. The Roman Canon does not include him, presumably because He died before Christ died and rose and was therefore technically an OT Saint (this is why adding St. Joseph in 1962 to the canon was somewhat incongruous).

That being said, at the very least he explicitly desired the baptism of Christ.

St. Vincent Ferrer had something interesting to say on this, when speaking of the indelible mark of baptism (signified by the name of Jesus on forehead, as is referenced in the book of Revelation):

It may be asked why the Baptist sought baptism since he had been cleansed and sanctified in his mother’s womb, and so he had no need of further cleansing as we read in St. Luke (1. 15): ‘And he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother’s womb.’ My answer is he desired the Character or seal, and the beauty that he knew would be given by Baptism, since he also knew well that he was sanctified, not stained by sin. Therefore he said to Christ: ‘I ought to be baptised by thee.’ It is supposed, for the same reason, that the Virgin was baptised, although conceived immaculate; the Apostles also were baptised, as St. Augustine says (Epist 108). The holy prophets did not receive this seal, this beauty. So, in heaven you will be able to distinguish: this man was baptised, this was not.