John the Baptist question - Pilate and Josephus

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Just read this in an article. Can someone explain?

“Jesus’ two year mission begins after the death of John the Baptist. But look how Josephus describes John’s life and death. Firstly he describes the death of King Philip in AD 34. Then he tells us that to marry Philip’s wife, Herod divorced his first wife, who was the daughter of King Aretas of Petra.

But King Aretas’ daughter went home crying to her father, who raised an army and attacked Israel. Herod sent his army into battle but they were completely wiped out.

‘Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God as a just punishment of what Herod had done against John, who was called the Baptist. For Herod had killed this good man…’(Joseph ‘Antiq’)

If John had been killed eight years before the destruction of Herod’s army, surely nobody would link the two events? The destruction of the army in AD 36 must have been no more than six months to a year after the Baptist’s death, for them to be linked, which places his death in AD 35. If Jesus’ two year mission began then he would still be alive in AD 38. Pilate left Judea in AD 36.”
 
I’m finding that Herodias divorced from Philip while Philip was still alive, and Herod Antipas then divorced his own wife to marry her. So John’s death can be dated before 34 AD, at the least.
 
Can you send your source ?
I’m sorry, I’m having really awful faith struggles with early Christianity right now.
 
AdoroTeDevote said:
If John had been killed eight years before the destruction of Herod’s army, surely nobody would link the two events? The destruction of the army in AD 36 must have been no more than six months to a year after the Baptist’s death, for them to be linked, which places his death in AD 35.
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This seems like a huge assumption. Who is he to say how small of a gap is needed to link such events?
 
AdoroTeDevote said:
Can you send your source ?
I’m sorry, I’m having really awful faith struggles with early Christianity right now.
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I think the bigger question is Antipas’ defeat being dated to 36 AD.

But as for Herodias:
Antiquities 18.5.3 136

Herodias was married to Herod, the son of Herod the Great by Mariamme the daughter of Simon the high priest. They had a daughter Salome, after whose birth Herodias, taking it into her head to flout the way of our fathers, married Herod the Tetrarch, her husband’s brother by the same father, who was tetrarch of Galilee; to do this she parted from a living husband.
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Not quite following, this is over my head I do think. However, are we sure Herodias divorced Phillip before he died?
 
It was hard for me to follow the writer’s intent at first, but I think his bigger concern is the time between John’s death and Antipas’ defeat in 36 AD. If John died in 31ish AD, and the defeat was in 36 AD, isn’t that too far apart to link together? He then makes an unfounded leap of logic, on the basis of his own personal opinion about how close in time these events have to be together to be linked in people’s minds, to associate the defeat as justice (at least in part) for John the Baptist’s death. He has no justification beyond his personal opinion on what’s too far apart, so I find it shaky.

It’s not necessary to provide further evidence for why they would be linked, but it bears reminding that (1) John’s death was seen by the people as unjust, (2) John objected to the marriage, and (3) the conflict followed from the marriage that John, a popular figure, had objected to. Why couldn’t this be seen as justification that John was right and Herrod was wrong?
 
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Oh wait I see this assumption now!
Yes, you are making sense. Seems like a pretty big assumption.

Here’s the article, which seemed sketchy:

www.google.com

EVERYTHING you know about Jesus' death is wrong

JESUS wasn't crucified and Pontius Pilate wasn't even in Judea – Ten incredible reasons why the Bible has it wrong about the central moment of the Christian faith.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
Thanks Wesrock, you do answer my questions often.
My faith has been wavering as of late, from claims like Mythicism or Ehrman’s gospel criticism. I keep on trying- I keep close to the Church and the sacraments. Pray often, ask for this doubt to be taken away.
Please pray for me!
Thanks
 
Also further refuting the article writer is Acts 19 showing that there were still John the Baptist disciples long after the Resurrection of Christ.
Just thought you’d appreciate that
 
AdoroTeDevote said:
must have been no more than six months to a year after the Baptist’s death, for them to be linked
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In those times everything took longer, mobilizing an army took years moving and army took long months. A siege could last years.
 
According to Antiquities 18.6.1-4, Agrippa had been living in Rome since before the death of his father Herod the Great (4 BCE), and had become well acquainted with the family of the Emperor Tiberius. But when Agrippa’s mother Berenice died he lost her sensible control over his free-spending nature and also her connections with the imperial family. In consequence he quickly ended up in debt. Agrippa had also lost his friend Drusus, Tiberius’ only son, who had been poisoned in 23 CE, and Tiberius, out of his grief, cut off contact with his son’s old companions. Agrippa quickly spent his money trying to keep close to the emperor and soon found himself in debt with no one to help him. As a result, he left Rome to seek help with his family in Judea. But he grew suicidal, and only through the intervention of his wife Cypros and his sister Herodias was he persuaded to live on. It is here that the reference to Herodias as wife of Herod the Tetrarch appears; the latter gives Agrippa an allowance for living expenses and a profitable job as a local director of commerce.
Agrippa was now resourceful, and eventually became solvent again. When he did, he sailed back to Rome, in 36 CE, and once again made the acquaintance of Tiberius. So the remark about Herodias can be placed between 23 and 36 CE. The death of John the Baptist can be in the same range.
 
AdoroTeDevote said:
“Jesus’ two year mission begins after the death of John the Baptist. But look how Josephus describes John’s life and death. Firstly he describes the death of King Philip in AD 34. Then he tells us that to marry Philip’s wife, Herod divorced his first wife, who was the daughter of King Aretas of Petra.

But King Aretas’ daughter went home crying to her father, who raised an army and attacked Israel. Herod sent his army into battle but they were completely wiped out.

‘Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God as a just punishment of what Herod had done against John, who was called the Baptist. For Herod had killed this good man…’(Joseph ‘Antiq’)

If John had been killed eight years before the destruction of Herod’s army, surely nobody would link the two events? The destruction of the army in AD 36 must have been no more than six months to a year after the Baptist’s death, for them to be linked, which places his death in AD 35. If Jesus’ two year mission began then he would still be alive in AD 38. Pilate left Judea in AD 36.”
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I think whoever wrote this is imposing an unnecessary requirement here. I believe Harold W. Hoehner (Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ) put it best when he wrote the following:

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Here’s another quote (from Paul’s Early Period: Chronology, Mission Strategy, Theology by Rainer Riesner):

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You also have to remember - the early Christians considered the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 to be God’s punishment upon the Jewish authorities for rejecting Jesus - that gives you thirty to forty years. In the same vein, some people also said that that was divine punishment for the death of St. James the ‘brother’ of Jesus in AD 62. If you read your Bible you’ll recall that God basically works in His time.
 
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Another quote, from E.P. Sanders’ The Historical Figure of Jesus:

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here you make the sense but assumptions sometime ruins. here we are also discuss some of the updates https:// www.darsaal. com
 
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The Chronology question is a difficult one. I would recommend John Hagan’s “Year of the Passover” and “Fires of Rome” for a guide in this regard. For things to “work” with secular sources such as Josephus, some of the NT must be considered in error.

For instance, the husband of Herodias whom she divorced was not Herod Philip, the Tetrarch who died in AD 34 but Herod II, who lived in Rome and whose date of death is unknown. Whiston, the translator of Josephus, called him Herod Philip of Rome in order to be in “synch” with the NT.

And, by the way, Josephus is clear that Herodias’ daughter Salome by Herod II MARRIED the Tetrarch Herod Philip- probably less than a year before he died in AD 34.

According to Hagan, who uses the most veracious sources with lengthy quotes (special emphasis on Josephus, of course), JB was arrested by Herod Antipas late in AD 34 and held for months before being executed in AD 35 early in the year and before the Passover.

It was that stunning action that caused Jesus to “retreat” from Jerusalem to the safety of the Eastern Galilee region and celebrated the Passover of AD 35 there. It was late in AD 35 when Antipas’ army was subsequently destroyed by Aretas. Jesus, presumably feeling safer, returned to Judea for the months leading up to the Passover of AD 36, where he met his fate.
 
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