John XII-attack on the Church from another message board

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masondoggy

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This is a quote from another message board, this dude is having a field day attacking the Church. What in the heck is this about…
John XII (955 - 964): Just 18 years old when he was elected pope, John was a notorious womanizer and the papal palace came to be described as a brothel during his reign. It is perhaps fitting that he died of injuries sustained when he was caught in bed by the husband of one of his mistresses. Some legends say that he died of a stroke while in the act.
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can you give us the link???’ more than 1 person here will gladly confront them
 
What’s to confront? While it’s possible that the contemporary chroniclers exaggerated things, this is how that particular Pope is described in the available accounts. Catholics don’t deny that there were bad Popes, and I think that’s really all you can say. Except that you can use it as a teaching moment to point out that these corrupt Popes were the pawns of the local Roman aristocracy, and that the current method of electing Popes developed in response to that problem.

Edwin
 
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Contarini:
What’s to confront? While it’s possible that the contemporary chroniclers exaggerated things, this is how that particular Pope is described in the available accounts. Catholics don’t deny that there were bad Popes, and I think that’s really all you can say. Except that you can use it as a teaching moment to point out that these corrupt Popes were the pawns of the local Roman aristocracy, and that the current method of electing Popes developed in response to that problem.

Edwin
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I wasn’t really planning on confronting this guy, I’ve been down that road with him before with his attacks and quite frankly, I’m tired of repeating myself. I was just wondering if the allegations are true or exaggerations, or just outright lies.
 
masondoggy:
What in the heck is this about…
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Aren’t you familiar with a history of your popes? Some of them were real scoundrels, especially during the medieval and Renaissance eras. I get the impression that Catholics, by and large, think all of the popes were like John Paul II.
 
Exactly. Our Popes may TEACH infallibly on matters of faith and morals, but they are not infallible people, and they are not IMPECCABLE people either.

We have had some rotten kings throughout history, but the institution of the monarchy doesn’t depend on whether or not kings are good or bad.

We have had some rotten presidents, rotten leaders, rotten “religious men and women”. . .

We don’t claim that because we had one, two, four, or more (pick any number) of a particular “occupation” or “religion” who have been bad apples that the occupation or the religions (or any other subject) is bad. . .

Right?

One could also quietly murmur the word. . .“Judas”. Hey, wasn’t he appointed to the apostles by Christ Himself? One out of twelve went really, really wrong.

So, maybe out of say 300 popes we had a dozen REAL bad apples (I don’t think it’s been quite that many, but let’s just say it.) We aren’t doing all that badly, comparatively speaking.

And let’s not forget how many Popes were saints, including some from relatively recent times (Pius X) not to mention one whom we hope will soon be recognized as such. . .

JOHN PAUL II THE GREAT
 
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arcturus:
masondoggy:Aren’t you familiar with a history of your popes? Some of them were real scoundrels, especially during the medieval and Renaissance eras. I get the impression that Catholics, by and large, think all of the popes were like John Paul II.
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Yes, I’m aware of that. I was just looking for accurate facts regarding these specific allegations.
 
The Catholic Encyclopedia’s article on John XII indicates that the allegations are substantially true: “a coarse, immoral man, whose life was such that the Lateran was spoken of as a brothel, and the moral corruption in Rome became the subject of general odium.” I had forgotten that it was John XII who crowned Otto I Holy Roman Emperor.

Edwin
 
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Contarini:
The Catholic Encyclopedia’s article on John XII indicates that the allegations are substantially true: “a coarse, immoral man, whose life was such that the Lateran was spoken of as a brothel, and the moral corruption in Rome became the subject of general odium.” I had forgotten that it was John XII who crowned Otto I Holy Roman Emperor.

Edwin
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Thanks, I didn’t know to look there. 😉
 
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