Join us--wear a head covering to Mass Oct 2

[Detroit_Sue]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

First of all, Lorrie, what is a Forum Supporter?

Here is my tale.
I was really brave and bold about this because there are many women at my church who cover their heads. No big deal.

WELL, This just happened to be the Sunday that all of the Polish dance troops in the Detroit area go to a Historic Church and are blessed.

I was resolved.

I did put my chapel cap on. Honestly it was just normal for me. It seemed to fit with the beauty of this “Mini Cathedral”.

The thing I did notice is that our troops need a good lesson in how to behave in Mass.
Not my girls of course!

What parish was this? Sweetest Heart of Mary?

 

[AmberDale]

I wore my scarf again yesterday. Didn’t feel like I was getting any strange looks.

Yesterday one of the people who always sits in the front row stared at me as I walked in the side door and until I walked past.
I think she thought it was odd, she’s my age so isn’t used to see people with scarfs on.

 

[netmilsmom]

Detroit Sue:

What parish was this? Sweetest Heart of Mary?

St. Albertus.
Oh Sue, if we could only levitate this church to 18 and Ryan, it could be put to good use.

I couldn’t get over the devistation. It was beautiful beyond measure, but the plaster on the blue ceiling was falling. Like falling as we were there. I looked on the floor in the pew in front of me and there was blue plaster! The water damage on the wall was very evident as well. (There is a statue of a saint lying in state under Mary’s Altar. Do you know who that is?)
The altar rail was white marble with the kneeling pad still on it. I could see all the ladies who wanted to wear head coverings feeling very at home there. Honestly, it made me want to cry.

I can see why these churches are being sold. Just heating the place has to be thousands a month. It is a dirty pity.

 

[Forest-Pine]

the phoenix:

Being more observant of others wearing head coverings since I wore one myself today, I saw that at the indult Latin Mass parish downtown, most of the chapel caps or longer veils the ladies and young girls wear are simple white lace. Black lace comes in second in popularity among women; no girls wore black, but only white. One lace veil looked to be tinted a very mild pink. Most of the veils are long and flowing rather than caps. My deep turquoise blue mantilla was thus very distinctive, but as I wore a conservative grey skirt, white sweater, and powder blue vest, it seemed respectable enough.

The guy I was talking with told me the woman who wears a black veil at mass was wearing a “widow’s veil.” Perhaps that is why older people are wearing black in your parish as well.

I saw several different colors of lace (fabric) at the fabric store–hot pink and red and turquise among them. When I saw the turquise, I thought of you.

Looking back, I didn’t think about my head covering at all, or my hair for that matter, all through church. I suppose it is possible that others were looking at it and I didn’t even notice. I did notice several little details during the mass that I never had before.

 

[Brenda_V]

Hi all. I remembered (got ForrestPines reminder note today, Monday). I couldn’t find any of the crocheted scarves I had made which was what I was going to wear so dug in my drawer until I found my 30+ year old Confirmation Veil (longer than a chapel veil, shorter than a mantilla) and wore that.

I attend Mass in a school chapel as the “parish” I belong to is a mission at the moment so we are a smaller group. I always sit up front and right now, alone, as one of my daughters is off at college and the other plays the violin with the choir. Okay, now you have the scene, the readings are being read by the Lectors and Father is looking around at the people in his congregation, he looks at me and does an obvious double take and then looks away - just the double take look, he is used to seeing me at Mass but not with a veil on . No comments though from anyone and if I had worn my scarf Fr. wouldn’t even have noticed. Oh, I must mention that this Priest is easily distracted - my youngest (the one off at college now) used to make faces at him while he was giving his homily when he was a new priest and you could see that he was distracted because he would pause and then look away from her (I didn’t know she was doing this at first so I couldn’t correct her!)

How was everyone esles experiences?

BTW, Cargopilot, I do understand your wifes concerns - if she is involved with the other women in your parish there is a strong chance that the will be very catty about it - but there is also the chance that they will admire her for it too. She should just ask them what they think about someone wearing a head covering and go from there. A good opener for her is “I hear there is a group of women from an internet group who have decided to wear a headcovering to Mass what do you think?” From there she could even solicit a group of them to do it together! Llike we are saying here, there is safety in numbers!

Brenda V.

 

[grotto]

Hubby and I attended 8:30 Mass - we have to travel 50 miles each way to avoid abuses (big time). Anyhow, it was kind of funny in that my husband of 45 years never said a word about my wearing a black lace head covering, like a mantilla. He can remember “when” so I guess he just wasn’t fazed enough to ask. Just one other lady was wearing a small, round lace head covering.Of course, because it was planned rather than the usual routine, I had a few thoughts from time to time about how it “looked” but I began to feel more and more comfortable. I felt less distracted like I was in my own safety zone of prayerful concentration. I plan on this happening as my “usual routine”. Try it! You’ll like it!

 

[vluvski]

I wore my head covering. It was a bit unconventional (all I could find for cheap on short notice) so I’m not surprised no one said anything. It could have just as easily been a fashion statement. I thought the ensemble looked pretty good. And since I wasn’t going for attention, I think I’ll continue building up an inventory of scarves, bandanas, and other trendy headgear. It can be my little secret, though I’m sure people will catch on when they see me every single weekend with something on my head. I’m not worried about standing out at all, but for me this is something private that I don’t feel like shouting from the steeple.

 

[lyoncoeur]

My lady friend and I attended Mass at a new, to both of us, Parish… the Parrish where, two weeks ago, she met with the Priest about converting and at that meeting they got on the subject of headcoverings and he advised that she reconsider wearing the headcovering… Anyhow…back to yesterday…she was actually greeted by a kindly older woman who leaned over to my friend while she was praying and said… "Your Mantilla is very lovely"I think that made her feel good.

Ever since she started reading and learning about the Faith, she has become more and more insistant that she is called to follow this custom…even though it make’s her feel very self conscious…I remind her that it’s not a requirement but she tells me that she feels that it’s an approiate thing to do and that she has been called to do it.

It is really interesting to see this lovely person grow in the faith as she is…and she told me last night that her sister, who lives in Chicago, is beginning to attend catholic services such as the Rosary, Stations of the Cross…and even Mass {sans Eucharist of course!} and her Father has even decided to convert!.. Not sure if I mentioned it in my previous posting…but her and her family used to be VERY strong Evangelicals…fighting to convert Catholics “back to Jesus” in the past… it’s a very exciting transformation to see in these people!

 

[krazykatlady]

I’m afraid I’m a day late and a dollar short! Normally I wear a hat to Sunday Mass.I am one of a very few at my Novus Ordo parish who covers her head. Yesterday the choir was in uniform for a solemn occasion so I didn’t wear my hat.
To weekday Mass in the summer I wear a little triangular scarf which fastens in the back with velcro. It just looks like I’m trying to keep my hair back but in reality I feel called to cover my head. In the winter I wear a knit cap. Target and Kohl’s have some nice inconspicuous head coverings.
I save my shoulder length mantillas for when I attend the TLM in Washington , DC. I’d say 80-90% of the women there have their heads covered.

 

[the_phoenix]

Helen HansenPye: Hope you’re feeling better now. Thanks for thinking of us and being there for us in spirit.

Forest-Pine: Wow, thanks for your explanation of the black veil. The obvious fact that it stands for widowhood went right over my head. … So when you say that while wearing your scarf headband you noticed little details in the Mass that you never had before, perhaps you’re saying that the head covering helped you to focus? * is becoming curious about what you’ve noticed, but does not wish to impolitely ask, bows * For me, quietness helps me to focus and concentrate.

~~ the phoenix

 

[angelmessenger]

Hi All,

I don’t think the rules of woman wearing a headcovering in Church were ever abolished. St Paul taught on the importance of this act, as did previous Popes and also the Church Fathers.

Canon 28 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 5, a custom, whether contrary to or apart from the law, is revoked by a contrary custom or law. But unless the law makes express mention of them, it does not revoke centennial or immemorial customs, nor does a universal law revoke particular customs.

Hence, according to Canon Law and immemorial custom, women are still to veil themselves

God bless

Jan

 

[bear06]

angelmessenger:

Hi All,

I don’t think the rules of woman wearing a headcovering in Church were ever abolished. St Paul taught on the importance of this act, as did previous Popes and also the Church Fathers.

Canon 28 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 5, a custom, whether contrary to or apart from the law, is revoked by a contrary custom or law. But unless the law makes express mention of them, it does not revoke centennial or immemorial customs, nor does a universal law revoke particular customs.

Hence, according to Canon Law and immemorial custom, women are still to veil themselves

God bless

Jan

I’ve asked the OP if I may respond now that the 10/2 is over and she allowed me to do so. Also, before anyone jumps on me for being against wearing head coverings, I’m not in any way. The only thing I am against is people insisting that the Church binds us to do so. Jimmy Akin has written a great piece on explaning this issue (acutally I think he’s written a few). Please read this:

jimmyakin.org/2004/07/head_coverings_.html

And for those who might not be inclined to click on the above link, here’s a little quote rebutting the above posters theories on this issue.

The argument that is made appears to be that the mandatory wearing of head coverings by women is an immemorial custom and thus obtains force of law per canon 26. The problem with this line of argument is that it involves a category mistake. Though we might colloquially speak of the “custom” of women wearing head coverings, this matter did not belong in the legal category of custom prior to its abrogation. It was not a matter of custom but a matter of law. The 1917 Code expressly dealt with the subject, so it was not a custom but a law that women wear head coverings in Church. That law was then abrogated

.

As for St. Paul, he did not just speak of wearing head coverings in Church , he spoke of wearing them any time we pray. I doubt I can find one person who follows this exactly as St. Paul states. Besides that, the Church has the final interpretation of bibilical texts and the last 3 popes haven’t suddenly forgot to teach us on this issue.

Glad to hear that most of your 10/2 experiences seem to have gone well!

 

[angelmessenger]

Hi,

But surely unless the law makes express mention of them, it does not revoke centennial or immemorial customs?

I am not trying to make problems—I havn’t worn a head covering for many years as I thought it was a ‘man made’ law and therefore could be stopped, however I am now trying to get to the truth of this and the above reasoning tells me that the head covering is still in place. Also I cannot forget the words of St Paul.

God bless

Jan

 

[bear06]

angelmessenger:

Hi,

But surely unless the law makes express mention of them, it does not revoke centennial or immemorial customs?

I am not trying to make problems—I havn’t worn a head covering for many years as I thought it was a ‘man made’ law and therefore could be stopped, however I am now trying to get to the truth of this and the above reasoning tells me that the head covering is still in place. Also I cannot forget the words of St Paul.

God bless

Jan

No problem. Discussing is not bad.

What Mr. Akin is trying to show is that while we like to say it is a “custom” it was actually a law. Canonically it was not a custom, it was a law.

Once again, a discipline can be changed by the Pope. In Paul’s time, there was a discipline enforced by the pope of wearing head coverings. They all should have been wearing them as Peter and Paul stated. Head coverings are discipline not dogma. If the pope someday decided to bind us to it again, then we would be sinning not to wear one.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Well, here’s my sad tale – no hat. I went to WalMart on Saturday to look at the hats, etc. I found no scarves at all, and three types of hats:

1. Wooly winter hats
2. Extremely casual hats (beach hats or muck-around-in-the-garden hats)
3. Hats that would look good on a young girl, but not on a grown-up.

My weekend was scheduled to the max, so I knew I would have no time to do anything with fabric, needle and thread.

As it turns out, I couldn’t even get dressed up for Mass. I had a trip on Sunday that was pretty much incompatible with being dressed up. My plan was to come home from Mass, change clothes, and then go on the trip. But on Friday night, I got a phone call – the departure time had been moved up, and I knew I wouldn’t even have time to change my clothes, so I had to wear the casual duds to Mass (don’t worry, nothing sloppy or immodest. )

Oh well, next Sunday is another day. I love lace, and am thinking about what I could make from lace other than a mantilla or chapel cap.

Meanwhile, here’s something I found in a mail-order catalog (picture below). Isn’t this a nice idea for cold weather, especially in churches that aren’t heated too well? It comes in tan and black, too.



**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[angelmessenger]

Hi,
Once again, a discipline can be changed by the Pope. In Paul’s time, there was a discipline enforced by the pope of wearing head coverings. They all should have been wearing them as Peter and Paul stated. Head coverings are discipline not dogma. If the pope someday decided to bind us to it again, then we would be sinning not to wear one.

But as the Church changed this law–That is the question! I don’t think they have. Overlooked it maybe, but not changed it.

St Paul emphasized over and over again that circumcision and the entire Mosaic Law were not necessary – and he was speaking to Hebrew Christians! Therefore Paul was not being influenced by his culture.

God bless

Jan

 

[bear06]

Read Mr. Akin’s article. He shows exactly when refer to what and how this law is abrogated. I could state what he does but I think that would be plagarizing instead of quoting at this point!
jimmyakin.org/2004/07/head_coverings_.html

Beside that, the Church has spoken on this issue. Here’s Inter Insigniores:
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFINSIG.HTM

Here’s a quote from it:

Another objection is based upon the transitory character that one claims to see today in some of the prescriptions of Saint Paul concerning women, and upon the difficulties that some aspects of his teaching raise in this regard. But it must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value.

 

[KayMS]

bear06:

As for St. Paul, he did not just speak of wearing head coverings in Church , he spoke of wearing them any time we pray.

According to the Comprehensive Catholic Commentary of Father Geo. Leo Haydock, that chapter of Scripture (namely, 1 Cor 11) deals with “1. That women must have a veil on their heads at public prayer, to ver 17.” He says specifically of ver 3. “To have the head covered at public meeting, is according to S. Paul, a mark of subjection…for these reasons, as well as from a received custom, S. Paul tells every woman, that in praying or prophesying in public meetings, she must have her head veiled, and covered in testimony of her subjection to man, her head…”

I would conclude that contrary to the conclusion of Mr. Akin, veiling was a “received custom” that became binding law, which was later loosened but not abrogated.

I was not going to participate in the Oct 2. veiling day because I attend almost exclusively an Indult Tridentine Mass where many women already veil BUT I was forced to leave home because of hurricane Rita and I ended up attending Mass for two weeks at another parish where no one veils. I have worn a veil for a very long time (first began in a parish where no one veiled) so I am very comfortable in my veil. To me it is part of my Sunday dress and I normally do not notice how other people react, even when visiting another parish since I feel normal in my veil. I think your attitude (body language, etc.) has a lot to do with how people respond to your veil. If you feel awkward, you are going to look awkward. Women can read other women’s attitude about their clothing quite easily.

My personal experience on Oct 2 was that no one commented on my veil, perhaps a few people looked at us (I have two daughters who were also veiled, my mother was not). The only comment I received was from a man outside after Mass (I was still wearing my veil) who told me how much my boys reminded him of himself when he was young (I have three little boys in a row, who while reasonably quiet are a little fidgetty).

 

[angelmessenger]

Hi,

Can we reject other scriptural admonitions too? —Now seeing as at least they havn’t been banned I can start wearing one.

God bless

Jan

 

[bear06]

According to the Comprehensive Catholic Commentary of Father Geo. Leo Haydock, that chapter of Scripture (namely, 1 Cor 11) deals with “1. That women must have a veil on their heads at public prayer, to ver 17.” He says specifically of ver 3. “To have the head covered at public meeting, is according to S. Paul, a mark of subjection…for these reasons, as well as from a received custom, S. Paul tells every woman, that in praying or prophesying in public meetings, she must have her head veiled, and covered in testimony of her subjection to man, her head…”

No offense to the good Fr. Haydock but that would be his interpretation. It might even be a fine interpretation but that isn’t verbatim what St. Paul said which is actually the point. The Church interprets what is necessary and what is not. She interprets whether one must where a veil everytime she prays, just at Church, not at all because the act has lost its normative value. It is a discipline and the Magisterium has jurisdiction over the disciplines.