Joined a Evangelical Protestant. The arguments that led me to Catholicism

[dronald]

I want to start by saying this forum is not the only reason that I am converting to Catholicism, nor would I even say that it is the main reason as I know in my heart that God is the reason that I am giving up on protesting.

I do want to give this forum some credit though, because I joined ready to fight for my Faith and see where it leads me. As a Protestant I found that there was nothing more frustrating than defending my Faith against non-Christians by resorting to quote the likes of Eusabius, Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, etc, while fully knowing that I don’t share all of their beliefs, mainly the Eucharist. This always made me uneasy knowing that my Lord clearly states that if I do not eat His Flesh and drink His Blood then I have no life in me.

Without further delay I would like to take you on a journey through my experience here and some of the most compelling arguments, and some of the least compelling arguments when you were discussing with a devout, Bible only, God loving (with all my heart), Evangelical, Christian.

--------------------The Good--------------------

I started with a common theme here and that was

The only thing I’m confident in is my faith in God and my will to do His will. I pray that He’ll guide me down the right path, whether it be Catholicism or continuing as a Protestant. I love God with all my heart and I know He loves me and wants to save me through His Son, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself up for me.
God bless.

Link

And that was my prayer, I came here knowing that there is a good chance I may convert to Catholicism with all the evidence pointing me that way, but I just wasn’t sure. So I made it my duty to argue my best arguments, sometimes being blunt, bold, or kind.

Correcting ignorance is of utmost importance, and doing so with love is even greater:

Catholics however reject the belief that Protestants are in the same Church.

You are incorrect in this statement from the Catechism:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”

I stand corrected, and feel closer to the CC than ever.

God bless you, I pray that if God wills it, I’ll be Catholic. If I never do become Catholic and the CC is the absolute truth, I pray that God forgives me. I also pray that the Holy Spirit working through me can bring others to Jesus whether that be your Church or mine.

Let’s never let our differences separate us from Christ. I hope to one day rejoice and worship God in Heaven with all of you.

Amen!

Link to that heated debate

Jon S (hope he’s doing well) and I had a great debate about John 6 here and our crazy good discussion drawing parallels between John 6 and John 3. I feel like we were at a stalemate until he said:

Further John wrote this. John taught Polycarp and Polycarp instructed Ignatius of Antioch who affirms this essential teaching as follows:

St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans, 7, 110 A.D.:
I desire the Bread of God, the heavenly Bread, the Bread of Life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; I wish the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.

Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 6, 110 A.D.:
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God … They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.

My reply being:

This is Catholicisms strongest argument. I’ll write something up sometime (I can’t always get back to things on this site right away, but I always revisit.) I’ve been enjoying our discussion!

Needless to say, I never wrote anything up.

It wasn’t until this that I confirmed that this is the toughest argument to get around. I searched, and searched and found nothing. With this on my conscience, there was no turning back, I couldn’t reject history.

I really suggest you read the final link i’m posting, page 2 and 3 to get an interesting look at both sides of the argument, but when the history was posted; I had nothing.

Link to page 2

Link to page 3

I was thinking of writing up something on “The bad” approach, but I don’t want to condemn anyone or anything, and who am I to judge that people have preached to me poorly. Also, it’s late. But I may give some advice on some things that were said (and the ways they were said) that were unhelpful.

If anyone has any questions I would love to answer them as well. That’s not to say I’m anyone special, I’m not; but if I can help in any way I would be honoured.

 

[Trishie]

dronald, may God continue to lead and bless you.
God bless you for your patience and your willingness to listen and absorb.
The Church will be blessed by your becoming Catholics and sharing in the Sacraments.

Kind wishes,

Trishie

 

[Netty1]

I’m praying for your journey towards the Catholic Church.

Looking forward to seeing you in your water-wings and swimming the Tiber!!

 

[JRKH]

Welcome Home :extrahappy:

Peace
James

 

[adf417]

Truly awesome to hear you acknowledge that God is the opener of your heart and He alone deserves the glory! I pray others you come in contact with can recognize this open heart.

Peace!!!

 

[ahs]

Beautiful!!! Praise the Lord!

I enjoyed reading “the good”, but I also think the “bad” will be helpful. I still struggle, myself, with poor apologetics and someone like me can really benefit from seeing things that are NOT helpful. Maybe there’s a way to mention some things without calling out names? (If any of it was from me…you have my consent to call me out in public. )

 

[JRKH]

With relation to “the bad”…I suppose that it depends…
As you say, you don’t want to come off judgmental…so I guess the thing is - would you be addressing “weak arguments” or poor presentation.
Obviously the issue of “poor arguments” should be a rather objective one and I think we could all benefit from such discussion.
It gets trickier to start talking about poor presentation for that can get more into personality etc.

That said - I have to admit to being curious about what you considered to be “the bad”…
Maybe you could present such things in a more generic way than you did the good…

Peace
James

 

[Goya]

Awesome, dronald!

FWIW: I married an evangelical pro. (still married). It prompted me to ‘look under the hood’ of my own faith, and I even considered the possibility of converting, if my search (in earnest) led me to such. I was confirmed in my faith, and it was mostly for the reason you cited–the Eucharist, John Ch., 6, and the ECF’s on it.

Welcome home!

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Wow, what a nice post. Thanks be to God for every gift and grace you have received during this transitional time of your faith journey. If any of us were instruments of His grace, then I give thanks to Him for that as well. Sometimes coming home to the Catholic Church is not easy; there are many obstacles. However, the first time you receive the Eucharist as a faith filled Catholic, well, it’s awesome.

As to the “bad” approach on Catholic evangelization-- I think I know what you are talking about. I actually think a thread on “the wrong way to evangelize” would be worthy and helpful. You don’t need to point out a specific thread that bothered you, but the general gist of why you thought it was bad. For example, you could talk about the condescending tone that some apologetics posts contain. Or, lack of backing up what a person is claiming. No need to call someone out necessarily, just talk about what wasn’t effective for you (if you want).

PS. Are you going to join an RCIA class?

PPS. History had a major role in my conversion as well. Reading the ECF’s, combined with Scripture, the Didache and other writings, combined with archaeological evidence made a very strong case for the Catholic Church. There are things about Church history that are not particularly pretty, but the teaching of the Church is beautiful and true. If you are interested, the book “Four Witnesses” by Rod Bennett is a good historical read. I also recommend “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” by Brant Pitre.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I only will add: welcome home. Be sure that He is smiling.

 

[Catholic1954]

The Holy Spirit called you into the Catholic Church and you responded. Welcome Home; you will be an awesome Catholic! :knight2:

 

[steve_b]

I want to start by saying this forum is not the only reason that I am converting to Catholicism, nor would I even say that it is the main reason as I know in my heart that God is the reason that I am giving up on protesting.

I do want to give this forum some credit though, because I joined ready to fight for my Faith and see where it leads me. As a Protestant I found that there was nothing more frustrating than defending my Faith against non-Christians by resorting to quote the likes of Eusabius, Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, etc, while fully knowing that I don’t share all of their beliefs, mainly the Eucharist. This always made me uneasy knowing that my Lord clearly states that if I do not eat His Flesh and drink His Blood then I have no life in me.

Not to mention as Catholics, those ECF’s wrote against ALL those who weren’t in the Catholic Church and in extension, didn’t hold the Catholic faith.
d:

Without further delay I would like to take you on a journey through my experience here and some of the most compelling arguments, and some of the least compelling arguments when you were discussing with a devout, Bible only, God loving (with all my heart), Evangelical, Christian.

--------------------The Good--------------------

I made it my duty to argue my best arguments, sometimes being blunt, bold, or kind.

Correcting ignorance is of utmost importance, and doing so with love is even greater:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dronald forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Catholics however reject the belief that Protestants are in the same Church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrift forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
You are incorrect in this statement from the Catechism:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by dronald forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
I stand corrected, and feel closer to the CC than ever.

God bless you, I pray that if God wills it, I’ll be Catholic. If I never do become Catholic and the CC is the absolute truth, I pray that God forgives me. I also pray that the Holy Spirit working through me can bring others to Jesus whether that be your Church or mine.

Let’s never let our differences separate us from Christ. I hope to one day rejoice and worship God in Heaven with all of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrift forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Amen!

Just to make a correction. Those passages from the CCC don’t say all the “baptised” are “in” the Church. For proof, if Protestants were “in” the Catholic Church based on their baptism, they could receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church. But they can’t. As the bishops state in the misselettes, to allow non Catholic Christians to receive the Eucharist is to acknowledge a unity that is not there. To expand, scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim that unity to exist that, regrettably, does not. Another reason that non-Catholics of the Protestant variety may not receive Communion is for their own protection, since many reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Scripture warns that it is very dangerous for one not believing in the Real Presence to receive Communion: “For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died” (1 Cor. 11:29–30).

To quote a few passages from the CCC describing the Church with Our Lord’s body,
669**, 789 , 805 , 807 , 792 , 1396 , **1368 ,

 

[Tradosaurus_Rex]

Dear Dronald,

Thank you for sharing your journey with us. I’m reminded of this verse in Jeremiah;

Thus saith the Lord: Stand ye on the ways, and see and ask for the old paths which is the good way, and walk ye in it: and you shall find refreshment for your souls…—Jeremiah 6:16

God bless and please pray for me.

 

[Pax]

Dronald,

Welcome home and may the Lord’s blessings continue to abound in you.

God bless.

 

[fred_conty]

The Holy Spirit is at work again.

Congratulations on the new dawn, Dronald.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I want to start by saying this forum is not the only reason that I am converting to Catholicism, nor would I even say that it is the main reason as I know in my heart that God is the reason that I am giving up on protesting.

I do want to give this forum some credit though, because I joined ready to fight for my Faith and see where it leads me. As a Protestant I found that there was nothing more frustrating than defending my Faith against non-Christians by resorting to quote the likes of Eusabius, Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, etc, while fully knowing that I don’t share all of their beliefs, mainly the Eucharist. This always made me uneasy knowing that my Lord clearly states that if I do not eat His Flesh and drink His Blood then I have no life in me.

Without further delay I would like to take you on a journey through my experience here and some of the most compelling arguments, and some of the least compelling arguments when you were discussing with a devout, Bible only, God loving (with all my heart), Evangelical, Christian.

--------------------The Good--------------------

I started with a common theme here and that was

Link

And that was my prayer, I came here knowing that there is a good chance I may convert to Catholicism with all the evidence pointing me that way, but I just wasn’t sure. So I made it my duty to argue my best arguments, sometimes being blunt, bold, or kind.

Correcting ignorance is of utmost importance, and doing so with love is even greater:

Link to that heated debate

Jon S (hope he’s doing well) and I had a great debate about John 6 here and our crazy good discussion drawing parallels between John 6 and John 3. I feel like we were at a stalemate until he said:

My reply being:

Needless to say, I never wrote anything up.

It wasn’t until this that I confirmed that this is the toughest argument to get around. I searched, and searched and found nothing. With this on my conscience, there was no turning back, I couldn’t reject history.

I really suggest you read the final link i’m posting, page 2 and 3 to get an interesting look at both sides of the argument, but when the history was posted; I had nothing.

Link to page 2

Link to page 3

I was thinking of writing up something on “The bad” approach, but I don’t want to condemn anyone or anything, and who am I to judge that people have preached to me poorly. Also, it’s late. But I may give some advice on some things that were said (and the ways they were said) that were unhelpful.

If anyone has any questions I would love to answer them as well. That’s not to say I’m anyone special, I’m not; but if I can help in any way I would be honoured.

Dronald,

I remember that conversation well (and the lack of reply ). I am so THRILLED that you are entering the church and TRULY HUMBLED that God used our discussion to aid you in your journey.

You are a true truth seeker and I commend you for that. That argument is powerful. It is the one that convinced me too! I just could not find a way to say Christians in the first century (not to mention the first 1500 years) were wrong and my 2-500 year old tradition was right.

I tried like you but could not find anything.

And it was shocking to me because I read the church fathers looking for the right Protestant denomination and it was this that made me go “ummmmm is it the Catholics?”

Keep truth seeking and God fearing and he will guide your every step.

God Bless!!!

:extrahappy::extrahappy:

 

[chero23]

Welcome home, your going to find peace in truth here in the Catholic Church. Even after ppl criticize us, you will always know that your in the right place.