Joining a Traditional Parish

[BernadetteM]

I have a question about registering at a parish which is traditional. Are there Catholic parishes that exclusively celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass and if so can a Catholic register there instead of their territorial parish?

If they want to get married in the parish do they need permission from the parish they would normally attend?

Thanks for any help.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[ThankUMaria]

Yes, there are some parishes that only celebrate the Latin Mass. In my archdiocese, there are about three “traditional parishes” that have all Masses in Latin. People are free to register and attend these parishes, but some require that women wear mantilla veils, and the dress code may be more strict than the regular parishes.

Not everyone who attends a TLM is registered there - some Catholics just sometimes like to participate in this type of Mass while fulfilling the Sunday Obligation at the English parish. Some parishes also offer TLMs on special feast days or once or twice a month.

The Sacrament of Marriage usually occurs at the bride’s parish. If she attends a TLM every once in awhile, she and her fiance should get married at her regular parish - Latin or not.

---

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[ConservativeOne]

Traditional or not - Is it necessary to “register” at a parish?
This would be understandable if a child is to be baptized, and the parents must be known to be good Catholics. I thought the most important thing is to attend Mass - not worry if I’m registered. (???)

 

[laszlo]

Here is a list of the TLM locations which are in full union with Rome

web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/churches.htm

Those marked with FSSP or Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest are only TLM communities, the diocesan ones usually mixed form.

Some FSSP locations have personal parish right, so one can meaningfully register there. Otherwise the registration means only that one get envelopes from the parish; legally one belongs to the territorial parish. This has importance for baptism, first communion, confirmation, marriage, those sacraments should be recorded there, and for marriage permit if needed if it is witnessed at another parish

 

[Chatter163]

The Sacrament of Marriage usually occurs at the bride’s parish. If she attends a TLM every once in awhile, she and her fiance should get married at her regular parish - Latin or not.

Canon law states that the sacrament of matrimony is to be celebrated in the parish in which either party has domicile or quasi-domicile.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I have a question about registering at a parish which is traditional. Are there Catholic parishes that exclusively celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass and if so can a Catholic register there instead of their territorial parish?

If they want to get married in the parish do they need permission from the parish they would normally attend?

Thanks for any help.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

We are free to register with any parish, even one of another Catholic Rite.

If its a personal parish, I don’t think you need premission anymore from your territorial parish.

 

[At_Trent]

Traditional or not - Is it necessary to “register” at a parish?
This would be understandable if a child is to be baptized, and the parents must be known to be good Catholics. I thought the most important thing is to attend Mass - not worry if I’m registered. (???)

It is good for the Church, in that it allows a way to gather data.

There was an article a few years ago about a parish pastor (I’ll call him Fr Joe) who had a head count done one Sunday. There were around 18% more in attendence than the parish records had listed as registered members. The parish was on the chopping block and in line to be merged with two other parishes.

Anyhow, the pastor anounced the count the next Sunday, which that Sunday’s count equaled…actually there were a handful more there for the second count. He mentioned how many had come to him asking how to save the parish from merger, and expalined that if those not registered would do so immediately after Mass, he would notify the diocese and hopefully the accurate numbers would save them from merger. Or, at the very least, he knew the new numbers would put his parish ahead of the two others considered for merger. Perhaps his parish would become the “home” parish if merged with others.

Not only did the non-registered members respond, the entire parish responded to his mention of a downward trend in the collection numbers.

The result ? The other two followed suit… non-registered members were asked to register, and those two did merge as one, while Fr Joe’s parish was allowed to remain !

Also, accurate registration numbers allow more accurate numbers in other areas. For example, per family collection averages. Also allows the parish to order the right number of materials.

 

[laszlo]

If its a personal parish, I don’t think you need premission anymore from your territorial parish.

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

This is a necessary rule for recordkeeping. One can receive all the sacraments outside of this parish, for marriage explicit for first communion and confirmation assumed permission of the territorial parish is needed.

This relation to the territorial parish does not change if someone registers in any other parishes. The registration is some administrative process not covered by the canon law. It did not existed in the Church before recently, except for personal parishes.

Can. 518 As a general rule a parish is to be territorial, that is, one which includes all the Christian faithful of a certain territory. When it is expedient, however, personal parishes are to be established determined by reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason.

Imho this is interpreted on that way that if someone is baptized in a personal parish (s)he belongs only there, those who register into a personal parish later still keep their original territorial parish. I am not sure.

 

[h1478971]

You can even register with the SSPX because the Church supplies juridstiction for them. Of course you can.

 

[MarkThompson]

You can even register with the SSPX because the Church supplies juridstiction for them. Of course you can.

Actually, the Church has expressly said that they don’t have jurisdiction, and can carry out no legitimate ministry in the Church. They have been stripped of jurisdiction, not supplied with it.

 

[h1478971]

Actually, the Church has expressly said that they don’t have jurisdiction, and can carry out no legitimate ministry in the Church. They have been stripped of jurisdiction, not supplied with it.

OK if that is the case when the diocese of Campos in Brazil broke from the SSPX and regularized itself with Rome why didn’t Rome require all the people in the diocese to redo all their marriages that were performed, and require all the people to redo all their confessions and baptisms?

They were never told to do such because their sacraments were valid and juridstiction was supplied. Rome would never have allowed an entire diocese to remain in a state of mortal sin without advising them to redo all the sacraments including Marriage.
Jurisdtiction was supplied. That is why no one had to redo all their juridstictional sacraments.

 

[MarkThompson]

OK if that is the case when the diocese of Campos in Brazil broke from the SSPX and regularized itself with Rome why didn’t Rome require all the people in the diocese to redo all their marriages that were performed, and require all the people to redo all their confessions and baptisms?

“Rome” (whoever that is) does not require anybody to get married. People living in marriages which are invalid due to defect of form are free to approach the legitimate ecclesiastical authorities and seek a sanation of their marriage. Those who don’t remain unmarried.

 

[SaintGobban]

Here is a list of the TLM locations which are in full union with Rome

web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/churches.htm

Those marked with FSSP or Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest are only TLM communities, the diocesan ones usually mixed form.

Some FSSP locations have personal parish right, so one can meaningfully register there. Otherwise the registration means only that one get envelopes from the parish; legally one belongs to the territorial parish. This has importance for baptism, first communion, confirmation, marriage, those sacraments should be recorded there, and for marriage permit if needed if it is witnessed at another parish

This information is in error. There is no such thing as “territorial legality.” You may register at, receive envelopes from, and receive ANY AND ALL sacraments and BURIAL from ANY church you choose. If you register there, attend mass, and put your envelope in the collection, THAT’S YOUR PARISH.

Second, the person who wrote that there are “Traditional” Parishes is also in error.
No diocesan churches ie. parishes under a Bishop of a certain territory, offer exclusively Latin masses. In that regard, there is no such thing as a “Traditional” Parish.

But, there is probably at least one diocesan parish in a metropolitan area that offers at least ONE Latin Mass per week.

Also, there is a group called The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. This group of priests offers Latin Masses exclusively. At last count there were 219 priests in this Fraternity who offer Latin Masses in many places throughout the world. They operate, or have services at, 48 churches in the US.
The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter is answerable to the Pope in terms of their operation, not to the local Bishop.

 

[laszlo]

This information is in error. There is no such thing as “territorial legality.”

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

§2. The proper pastor or ordinary of a transient is the pastor or local ordinary where the transient is actually residing.

§3. The proper pastor of one who has only a diocesan domicile or quasi-domicile is the pastor of the place where the person is actually residing.

Naturally you may register at any parish where you wish, but outside of the canon law. Some pastors accept the registration outside of their territory, and even marry people without permission of the territorial parish.

Even in 1995 when mys son married the local pastor required the dismissal letter from our territorial parish, despite the fact that either he and my daughter of law had quasi domicile in the University town where they married since years.

The territorial parish has rights over the baptism, first communion, confirmation ordination and marriage. Each sacrament had to be registered there. Except for the marriage or ordination permission for the sacrament may be implicit (assumed)

 

[SaintGobban]

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

§2. The proper pastor or ordinary of a transient is the pastor or local ordinary where the transient is actually residing.

§3. The proper pastor of one who has only a diocesan domicile or quasi-domicile is the pastor of the place where the person is actually residing.

Naturally you may register at any parish where you wish, but outside of the canon law. Some pastors accept the registration outside of their territory, and even marry people without permission of the territorial parish.

Even in 1995 when mys son married the local pastor required the dismissal letter from our territorial parish, despite the fact that either he and my daughter of law had quasi domicile in the University town where they married since years.

The territorial parish has rights over the baptism, first communion, confirmation ordination and marriage. Each sacrament had to be registered there. Except for the marriage or ordination permission for the sacrament may be implicit (assumed)

The canon laws that you are quoting are not relevant to the specifics of this discussion.

There is no argument about the fact that if one does not register at a parish (transient), one naturally falls under the aegis of the parish where one is residing. There is no argument about the fact that currently and in the past, a person is usually considered to be a member of the parish in which one resides. This is NOT the question at issue.

The statement that one is required to be a member of the parish where one resides and that they have some sort of “territorial rights.” Is the issue.

I can only restate that a person has the right to register, declare themselves a member of, have all of their paperwork located at, attend mass, educate their children, contribute to the support of, receive ALL sacraments from, and be buried from ANY CHURCH OF THEIR CHOICE. In this regard, there is no terriorial right. You could register at any parish you choose. And you then have all the rights and priviledges a “terriorial” member.

 

[MarkThompson]

The canon laws that you are quoting are not relevant to the specifics of this discussion.

There is no argument about the fact that if one does not register at a parish (transient), one naturally falls under the aegis of the parish where one is residing. There is no argument about the fact that currently and in the past, a person is usually considered to be a member of the parish in which one resides. This is NOT the question at issue.

The statement that one is required to be a member of the parish where one resides and that they have some sort of “territorial rights.” Is the issue.

I can only restate that a person has the right to register, declare themselves a member of, have all of their paperwork located at, attend mass, educate their children, contribute to the support of, receive ALL sacraments from, and be buried from ANY CHURCH OF THEIR CHOICE. In this regard, there is no terriorial right. You could register at any parish you choose. And you then have all the rights and priviledges a “terriorial” member.

This is not at all true. Registration is irrelevant, except as regards recognized personal parishes (these are mostly ethnic parishes). “Registration” as such is mostly a modern novelty anyway. Merely registering at some parish in the next town over does not make me a parishioner there.

 

[paperwight66]

This is not at all true. Registration is irrelevant, except as regards recognized personal parishes (these are mostly ethnic parishes). “Registration” as such is mostly a modern novelty anyway. Merely registering at some parish in the next town over does not make me a parishioner there.

I would add, not only a modern novelty, but an American one as well. It is not the practice in the UK, for example. Plainly, it is not required by canon law, otherwise it would be a universal custom.

 

[laszlo]

The statement that one is required to be a member of the parish where one resides and that they have some sort of “territorial rights.” Is the issue.

I can only restate that a person has the right to register, declare themselves a member of, have all of their paperwork located at, attend mass, educate their children, contribute to the support of, receive ALL sacraments from, and be buried from ANY CHURCH OF THEIR CHOICE. In this regard, there is no terriorial right. You could register at any parish you choose. And you then have all the rights and priviledges a “terriorial” member.

There is a difference between the required and ‘is’. Required implies some action, ‘is’ is automatic without any action. No person has the right to declare that the law is in error and he or she belongs as member where he/she wants.

One belongs to the parish where he lives. Lay people have the rights to the sacraments, but only at the parish of their domicile.

Baptism, first communion and confirmation has to be registered there (it may be done somewhere else with at least assumed permission of the local pastor), for marriage made elsewhere explicit permission is required by the law.

If you register at a parish 50 miles from your home, the priest has no obligation whatsoever to came to your bed if you are sick, or bury your dead body. Your local priest has such obligation.

If you think is over either from the point of registration or from the point of obligation of the pastor to provide sacraments and sacramentals, you will see that this is the only possible way.

Also you can send petition to the bishop abut your local pastor, but you should not be accepted to do so for a pastor outside of your territory, regardless if you filled up a registration paper or not. The pastor may have no responsible for people outside of his territory. The law is not for the case when everything is going smooth, it is to prevent potential problems.

Any registration is outside of the law, worthless legally.