Joining the Church - a couple of questions

[Euphon]

Now, I’m not saying that I’m here because of a purple light. (I was at pains to explain that to the priest.) Rather, I’m here because that was the shove I needed to realise just how important my faith had become to me, and just how dearly I wanted to be a part of the Church. Everything that’s happened since, up to and including the responses I’ve got on this forum, has made me feel stronger and stronger in my conviction that I’m doing the right thing.

There have been other signs since I took that first step, wonderful things, coincidences and natural phenomena and just a general growing and unshakeable feeling that everything now seems brighter and more full of purpose; a strong, undeniable sense that I am being called to do something, render some as-yet-unspecified service to the church; turn my talents to the service of God, if that’s not too immodest. I don’t know where this will take me, but I’m looking forward to finding out, and I’m on the right path; I’ve never been so sure of anything in my life.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

:clapping::yup::dancing: :extrahappy:

Well told my friend!!!

[SIGN]So glad you’re coming home![/SIGN]

And I hope, and will pray, that your wife is happy for you, too.

 

[CarolNoel]

Wondereful story.

 

[Euphon]

:clapping::yup::dancing: :extrahappy:

Well told my friend!!!

[SIGN]So glad you’re coming home![/SIGN]

And I hope, and will pray, that your wife is happy for you, too.

Thank you! And well done, that that reminds me of one of the things I’d said in the post that got swallowed. My wife has been extremely supportive both of me going to church every day and to the idea of the children being baptized and raised Catholic (the only stumbling block is that at the moment we lack Catholic would-be godparents); she hasn’t said she wants to join in herself and I’ve no wish to force anything down her throat, but I’ve answered any questions she’s had, and she’s hinted she might like to come to mass at Christmas and Easter at least; I’m hoping she does join this path too, but given her background has instilled a wariness and even inbuilt resistance to church that in many ways reflects my own, pushing the issue wouldn’t help in this case.

Thanks both for the kind words about the extremely long story! Feels good to finally get it down on paper (or electrons).

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Thank you for sharing this. What an interesting story, plus I really like the way you write.

I was also raised in a religion free home but was always a believer, so I can relate to that. I converted in my teens and was so happy, but then I went through a difficult and long phase of struggle and trying to figure it all out, to reconcile secular ideas and my faith. It took me over 10 years to finally embrace the Truth completely and to let God take over. That was the most difficult thing I have ever experienced but also the best. Your spiritual journey sounds similar, although you were not in the church during the figuring out stage. I am always amazed how all of our journeys are often so similar and how all converts seem to have a moment where it all makes sense and where we know we have to jump off the cliff, and hope that someone will catch us when we land. It really is a leap of faith that we have to make.

Your story also shows the attitudes to religion in the UK that I found very peculiar when I lived there. People don’t talk about it, it is an embarrassing topic among the educated and cultured, but if you really must do something so eccentric - good for you but please don’t mention it in polite company. I’m glad that even in such an environment people find a way to God.

Have you read St. Augustine and his “Confessions”? A very interesting read and I think you will like him and find things in common.

Thanks again for taking the trouble to write this. I always find it very edifying to read about people’s conversion stories.

 

[Euphon]

Thank you! It was nice to read your summary background story too - I find it ever so reassuring that others have had a similar “leap of faith” moment.

Thanks for the compliments on writing style; I wasn’t entirely happy with that wall of text up there (it was a reconstructed second draft cobbled together from disjointed bits of memory, and it was altogether too long - but I was asked!), so I’m glad it seems to have gone across well enough anyway.

You’re right about so many of us coming to God in a similar way - but then I suppose every conversion story has the same “ending”, so wherever we all started from, the closer we get (without knowing it) to the Church, the closer our stories become until we merge. That’s one of the things I’m looking forward to if it turns out I am indeed headed for RCIA classes, the chance to talk to other people who’ve come from every background (in terms of religion, I mean) but who’ve all nevertheless ended up in the same place. (Though I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t honestly prefer, given the option, to carry on the way I am now!)

My only experience of St Augustine is in the short excerpts sometimes found in the Office of Readings. (I bought the full Divine Office set, as opposed to a shorter 1-volume breviary, specifically for those!) I will definitely be doing much more reading once I’m through the formal stages of catechesis.

I rather like the oh-so-restrained British way of doing things. It’s probably inefficient in terms of total numbers of converts, but conversely you can be sure the ones who do convert must really want to make that commitment. I would say that, of course.

 

[kingal86]

or to be too embarrassed to get it out to say my prayers before bedtime (especially e.g. staying over at a friend’s house and getting back in at 3am, lacking not only the courage of my convictions but any convictions at all, being too ashamed - I’m not ashamed to use that word, it’s exactly what it was - of my persisting belief in what my rational friends insisted (and my rational mind acknowledged, on some level) was a medieval superstition with no place in a grown-up modern adult world)

An eye-opener, for sure, but not a life-changing moment for me, other than wishing I could have that kind of confidence, that it must be wonderful to have enough faith to go through with something like that and make it public. Says the man who was still talking to God during quiet moments. It didn’t seem contradictory at the time.

I can quite identify with some of those kinds of feelings, I suspect we were brought up in similarly secular environments.

 

[kingal86]

Your story also shows the attitudes to religion in the UK that I found very peculiar when I lived there. People don’t talk about it, it is an embarrassing topic among the educated and cultured, but if you really must do something so eccentric - good for you but please don’t mention it in polite company.

I’d say that’s rather spot-on about how religion is seen here - though I’d also say some people may be more supportive of an out-of-the blue conversion to a more “exotic” religion like Judaism, Islam or an Eastern faith than to Christianity.

The OP’s story was very engaging and I wish him luck. I personally wonder if the priest is giving private instruction (as well as helping the OP over the summer) because he isn’t yet sure if there is going to be a critical mass of enquirers available for an RCIA programme in the cathedral parish?

Or he may not have much experience - as a Catholic priest in a mostly nominally Anglican but increasing secular country - of being approached by a potential convert, especially not one he can converse on philosophical and theological matters with. I can imagine some who are just dipping their toes in might be put off if told to come back in autumn (well of course they could attend Mass before…)

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’d say that’s rather spot-on about how religion is seen here - though I’d also say some people may be more supportive of an out-of-the blue conversion to a more “exotic” religion like Judaism, Islam or an Eastern faith than to Christianity.

A few years ago I met young woman at church while I lived in the UK. She was converting from atheism and she said it was all a bit sudden, just a few months between being a staunch atheist and a candidate in RCIA. Her friends were horrified - all young artsy types. She said that they could just not understand her decision and would have supported anything else in terms of a new ‘lifestyle choice’ but not her being a Catholic Christian. I think that was a real eye opener for her.

 

[jmcrae]

No, it’s been absolutely amazing. If we did nothing but this for two years, I’d be happy. The thought of going from this to a possibly hit-and-miss RCIA classroom structure isn’t something that fills me with enthusiasm (though obviously if it’s what I need, it’s what I need.)

Your RCIA process will be whatever you make of it - it’ll be “hit and miss” if you make it so, but if you attend regularly and complete your weekly readings and assignments, you’ll grow and change incredibly, and you’ll be fully Catholic by Easter.

But I wasn’t sure if this was a “thing”. As a complete newbie, I only realised it wasn’t the norm when I started browsing around online looking at people’s experiences trying to come into the Church, none of which so far have been this, well, awesome. In fact, nobody else’s story seems to compare to mine at all, which is making it very hard to get a bead on where I’m headed.

I guess what I’m asking is… in the politest possible terms… what’s going on?

He’s making sure you’ve got everything in order to be able to start RCIA in September. You’re in a discernment process right now, and at the same time, he’s giving you Spiritual Direction.

You’re the first person I’ve ever encountered who was doing Spiritual Direction without even being aware of it. Most people have to fight to get in. You have an awesome priest - treat him well!

The question is not whether you will become a Catholic (especially since he has accepted you for Spiritual Direction), but how long it will take. Typically it takes about a year, sometimes two, depending on circumstances.

I don’t for one second wish to appear ungrateful or dissatisfied or frustrated, I just have no idea how what I’m doing relates to my short-term “goal” of joining the Church.

It’s all part of the same thing - being and becoming Catholic.

On the baptism issue… I realise every case is probably different and I’ll ask the priest, though the issues around it are a bit prickly. Nothing I want to get into right now (and nothing bad, just messy from a family perspective!), but in general: if I were able to provide:

• • my baptismal records and/or a statement from my parents saying “yup, Euphon was validly baptised on this date in this church and these are his godparents” (I have no idea who they are!) and so on, AND:
• • a copy of the deed of change of name from years later to go with it showing that person baptised 30-odd years ago with my old name is really me…

in general, should that be OK?

Yes, it will be fine.

I have no idea how they’ll deal with the Certificate, but someone will know what to do.

 

[Steveabrous]

What’s not really been discussed, and I’ve been too afraid to broach it, is where this is actually heading. Or rather, not where it’s heading as such - we’ve mentioned a few times that God willing I’m going to be joining the Church next Easter if they’ll have me - but rather how this relates to us getting there; I’m assuming this is part of the preparation for RCIA, but it hasn’t been clearly set out and so I’m just going with the flow at the moment!

Well, I went through RCIA and I can tell you it’s not “If we will have you” It’s if you will have us.

This is a period of discernment for you.
We are all sinners and have a shady past so there is nothing that can disqualify you from becoming Catholic. However if you are married and you and/or your spouse has a previous marriage you need to get it annuled or you will not be allowed the sacraments.

I’m also a little worried about the requirements of RCIA in terms of “proving” my baptism. i was definitely validly baptised, the Protestant church I was Christened in (in a rural part of Northern England) is still there, and even if there were no records, my parents are still alive and could probably provide an affidavit if needed. However, for complex reasons I don’t want to get into here, I changed my name by deed poll when I was in my twenties; I haven’t discussed this with anyone, but I’m not sure if (a) that’s a big no-no, and (b) if not, what to do about it.

Anyway, that’s me. Hope that wasn’t too much information!

It’s pretty simple if they can not varify your baptism you will be baptised at the Easter vigil Just in case. This was the case with a woman whom I went through RCIA with. She was baptised at a revival or something. It should be easy with you being from COE to produce a copie of your baptism.

 

[Euphon]

Your RCIA process will be whatever you make of it - it’ll be “hit and miss” if you make it so, but if you attend regularly and complete your weekly readings and assignments, you’ll grow and change incredibly, and you’ll be fully Catholic by Easter.

Thank you. Perhaps I was coming across poorly - I have no experience of RCIA or what it involves, and the experience stories online (including these forums) vary considerably, hence the “possibly hit and miss” remark. I’ve no intention of giving this anything less than 100%.

He’s making sure you’ve got everything in order to be able to start RCIA in September. You’re in a discernment process right now, and at the same time, he’s giving you Spiritual Direction. You’re the first person I’ve ever encountered who was doing Spiritual Direction without even being aware of it. Most people have to fight to get in. You have an awesome priest - treat him well!

I know it, don’t you worry! He’s not only been a wonderful “spiritual director” (I don’t know what that means in an RCIA context, so I’m giving it its dictionary meaning for now), he’s also a superb celebrant of Mass, his homilies stay with me for weeks. As if that weren’t enough, his singing voice is astonishingly good - professionally good. I’m half expecting him to reveal as an aside in tomorrow’s Mass that he won gold at the 1976 Olympics for synchronised swimming or something. I am under no illusions about just how lucky I am. I get to meet him again later this week after a long absence, I can hardly wait.

The question is not whether you will become a Catholic (especially since he has accepted you for Spiritual Direction), but how long it will take. Typically it takes about a year, sometimes two, depending on circumstances.

Thank you. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I can hardly wait. But I know that God will give me the patience and fortitude to follow this through and become a good Catholic.

Everyone seems very confident that I’ll be accepted in. Do people ever get turned away? That’s probably my worst fear about all of this at this point, I don’t know what I’d do.

 

[Euphon]

Well, I went through RCIA and I can tell you it’s not “If we will have you” It’s if you will have us.

I will!

This is a period of discernment for you.
We are all sinners and have a shady past so there is nothing that can disqualify you from becoming Catholic. However if you are married and you and/or your spouse has a previous marriage you need to get it annuled or you will not be allowed the sacraments.

No, nothing like that - I am married, with two children, and neither of us was/is Catholic, but there are no previous marriages (or relationships) lurking in the cupboard.

 

[aemcpa]

I’m half expecting him to reveal as an aside in tomorrow’s Mass that he won gold at the 1976 Olympics for synchronised swimming or something.

That would be problematic, since only women compete in synchronized swimming at the Olympics.

Everyone seems very confident that I’ll be accepted in. Do people ever get turned away? That’s probably my worst fear about all of this at this point, I don’t know what I’d do.

The Catholic Church is the only religion willed by God for all men. She won’t compromise her teachings, but she would never turn anyone away.

 

[bsroufek]

It seems that, beyond the daily conversion required of every Catholic, you need only two documents: your name change record (don’t know what a deed poll is, but hope there is record) and a Baptismal affidavit.

Hope your journey continues well!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Everyone seems very confident that I’ll be accepted in. Do people ever get turned away? That’s probably my worst fear about all of this at this point, I don’t know what I’d do.

This is not a test

My guess is they would say no if for example you admitted you were only joking about becoming Catholic and didn’t really believe in God and all that stuff.

 

[Steveabrous]

This is not a test

My guess is they would say no if for example you admitted you were only joking about becoming Catholic and didn’t really believe in God and all that stuff.

You don’t get turned away from joining the church, however certain actions can keep you from receiving the sacraments like living with someone who is married to another, participating in abortion.

 

[Euphon]

So, I finally had my next meeting with the priest last night, and it was as brilliant as ever.

(We talked a lot about the history of the early church, the development of the notion of authority derived from the local church being in communion with Rome, the difficulties facing a young church under persecution while geographically isolated from the next closest diocese, and the role of the first ecumenical councils in countering heresy.)

Anyway, at the end I saw my chance and flat out asked him for more information on my “road map” to reception. He explained that our conversations were geared towards a better understanding of the church and her teachings and that we would be going into more and more depth and sophistication as we went on, and that the goal was for me to be fully received into the church at Easter 2014. He said I would not be going through a formal RCIA course-based process unless I wanted to - he said he had no plans to teach me from a coursebook, and that while I could be enrolled on a course if I wanted a more structured approach, he hoped I would find the one-on-one sessions more useful from both an educational and spiritual perspective (to which I readily agreed!!), and that we would just keep on with our one-to-one meetings right the way through to Easter.

I am so happy :dancing:

When I first started this thread, I might have been worried that not going through an RCIA class based process might isolate me from other local Catholics, and cause me problems finding a sponsor etc., the cathedral has now started having regular tea and conversation sessions right after Mass on a Sunday and I’ve already met some wonderful people. I genuinely feel the Lord is providing for me on this journey.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

That is great news.

Please keep us posted on how things are going. I hope that CAF will also provide a sense of fellowship with other Catholics, together with the people you will meet in church.

 

[Euphon]

That is great news.

Please keep us posted on how things are going. I hope that CAF will also provide a sense of fellowship with other Catholics, together with the people you will meet in church.

Oh, absolutely, I love it here (hence me specifying “local” Catholics - I already feel like you guys are my extended family.) It’s getting me to shut up that is the trick