J
Jabronie
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Could someone sum up the “Joint Declaration” in simple terms? Thanks.
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b_justb
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The Actual document that was produced:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
A Lutheran point of view:
lutheranworld.org/Special_Events/LWF-Special_Events-Justification.html
One of the best series of articles written on the subject, in my opinion. The Text is near the bottom of this page:
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2065/is_2_52/ai_64190037
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
A Lutheran point of view:
lutheranworld.org/Special_Events/LWF-Special_Events-Justification.html
One of the best series of articles written on the subject, in my opinion. The Text is near the bottom of this page:
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2065/is_2_52/ai_64190037
S
Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Jabronie,
I have even heard priests say not to use it to try and understand what you must do to go to heaven. They say it is only an ecumenical tool to smooth things out with the Protestants.
I did the math one time. I can’t remember the exact numbers but St. Paul is quoted or refferenced about 13 times more often than Jesus. Did Jesus have nothing to say about what we must do to go to heaven? He certianly did. However, what Jesus says does not jive with what the Protestants incorrectly see St. Paul saying so they disregard Jesus clear teachings.
It is the “faith, not works” vs “faith through works” controversy between the Protestants and the Catholics that the document trys to overcome. I think it does more to confuse Catholics on what Jesus tells us to do to go to heaven than to clear up any differences between Catholics and Protestants. The Church paid a heavy price for the sake of “ecumenanism” by signing the statment.
The way people go to heaven is through Jesus, the reason people go to heaven is because they love God and love for God is accomplished through free from the will of God obedience to the will of God. Please visit Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?
Here are the some of the big staments from Jesus that the document worked hard to NOT include.
NAB LUK 18:18
One of the ruling class asked him then, "Good teacher, **what must I do to share in everlasting life? **"Jesus said to him, "Why call me ‘good’? None is good but God alone. You know the commandments:
‘You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not kill.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear dishonest witness.
Honor your father and your mother.’"
NAB MAT 25:31
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
I have even heard priests say not to use it to try and understand what you must do to go to heaven. They say it is only an ecumenical tool to smooth things out with the Protestants.
I did the math one time. I can’t remember the exact numbers but St. Paul is quoted or refferenced about 13 times more often than Jesus. Did Jesus have nothing to say about what we must do to go to heaven? He certianly did. However, what Jesus says does not jive with what the Protestants incorrectly see St. Paul saying so they disregard Jesus clear teachings.
It is the “faith, not works” vs “faith through works” controversy between the Protestants and the Catholics that the document trys to overcome. I think it does more to confuse Catholics on what Jesus tells us to do to go to heaven than to clear up any differences between Catholics and Protestants. The Church paid a heavy price for the sake of “ecumenanism” by signing the statment.
The way people go to heaven is through Jesus, the reason people go to heaven is because they love God and love for God is accomplished through free from the will of God obedience to the will of God. Please visit Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?
Here are the some of the big staments from Jesus that the document worked hard to NOT include.
NAB LUK 18:18
One of the ruling class asked him then, "Good teacher, **what must I do to share in everlasting life? **"Jesus said to him, "Why call me ‘good’? None is good but God alone. You know the commandments:
‘You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not kill.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear dishonest witness.
Honor your father and your mother.’"
NAB MAT 25:31
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
J
Jabronie
Guest
I think I’m going to need to get a Luke 18:18 tatoo, so that I don’t forget it. That verse will come in handy.
S
Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Not all Lutherans subscribe to the JDDJ. There are quite a few synods that don’t, I believe. The Missouri synod is one of those.
lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2212
lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2212
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