Jonah

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The Vatican was the scene of a big synod on the use of the Bible in the Church. A rather important even occured there, and it was the presence of a Jewish Rabbi. This was a signal that the Church wants to open its eyes to the value of Jewish exegesis. This was not simply symbolic.

That idea of studying Jewish exegesis was also expressed in a document released by the Pontifical Biblical Commission titled THE JEWISH PEOPLE AND THEIR SACRED SCRIPTURES IN THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE, which is available for download from the EWTN document library.

So…I’ve been reading Jewish commentaries off and on for a year. I’m reading the commentary on Jonah, published by the Jewish Publication Society.

In general, their opinion is that the lack of detail detaches the book of Jonah from being a historical book. Even in ancient times, the book was grouped with the other prophetic books. The improbability is expressed in many ways, the main way being that Jonah travels for a day into the city, utters one sentence, and in short order, the whole city capitulates, repents, and God relents of its destruction.

Biology aside, the whale can be viewed in two ways, maybe only one way. The whale may be imprisoning Jonah, but nonetheless functions as a rescuer of Jonah who was thrown into the sea. Jonah does not pray with the sailors for relief from the storm, it is only in the belly of the whale that he has time and perhaps obvious reason to pray to God.

The OP is concerned about whether Jonah was dead. The scripture is more concerned with the will of God, in general, and for the prophet Jonah, in particular, than to dwell for even a moment on that possibility. This is glossed over so quickly that it hardly merits further consideration.

The rabbinic discussion of the central theme of Jonah focuses on God’s concern for all people, not just the Jews. The book seems to have been written in the general timeframe that the book of Job was written. As the JPS commentary says, that seemed to be an era when there was a lot of thinking about God’s will and His plan for mankind (my paraphrase). That seems to be the serious subject under discussion in the book of Jonah.

There is a lot of discussion of the apparent irony, if not explicit humor, in the seven scenes of the book. Jonah seems preoccupied with his orthodox thinking, that a just God could relent and withdraw the punishment that the great city deserved. The storm causes a conversion of the sailors and their ultimate salvation from the storm, the whale is recruited for the salvation of Jonah (in a sense), and the residents of Ninevah repent and are saved. But, Jonah is still not persuaded. He takes comfort in a vine, too much comfort so that God takes that false comfort away from him.

Now, I’m not doing justice to the scholarship in this, but suffice it to say that this is so important a subject, that the book of Jonah is read on the most high holy day of the Jewish calendar, the Day of Atonement. I think the emphasis there is on God’s mercy, God’s will, and the importance of repentence.
 
The Vatican was the scene of a big synod on the use of the Bible in the Church. A rather important even occured there, and it was the presence of a Jewish Rabbi. This was a signal that the Church wants to open its eyes to the value of Jewish exegesis. This was not simply symbolic.

That idea of studying Jewish exegesis was also expressed in a document released by the Pontifical Biblical Commission titled THE JEWISH PEOPLE AND THEIR SACRED SCRIPTURES IN THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE, which is available for download from the EWTN document library.

So…I’ve been reading Jewish commentaries off and on for a year. I’m reading the commentary on Jonah, published by the Jewish Publication Society.

In general, their opinion is that the lack of detail detaches the book of Jonah from being a historical book. Even in ancient times, the book was grouped with the other prophetic books. The improbability is expressed in many ways, the main way being that Jonah travels for a day into the city, utters one sentence, and in short order, the whole city capitulates, repents, and God relents of its destruction.

Biology aside, the whale can be viewed in two ways, maybe only one way. The whale may be imprisoning Jonah, but nonetheless functions as a rescuer of Jonah who was thrown into the sea. Jonah does not pray with the sailors for relief from the storm, it is only in the belly of the whale that he has time and perhaps obvious reason to pray to God.

The OP is concerned about whether Jonah was dead. The scripture is more concerned with the will of God, in general, and for the prophet Jonah, in particular, than to dwell for even a moment on that possibility. This is glossed over so quickly that it hardly merits further consideration.

The rabbinic discussion of the central theme of Jonah focuses on God’s concern for all people, not just the Jews. The book seems to have been written in the general timeframe that the book of Job was written. As the JPS commentary says, that seemed to be an era when there was a lot of thinking about God’s will and His plan for mankind (my paraphrase). That seems to be the serious subject under discussion in the book of Jonah.

There is a lot of discussion of the apparent irony, if not explicit humor, in the seven scenes of the book. Jonah seems preoccupied with his orthodox thinking, that a just God could relent and withdraw the punishment that the great city deserved. The storm causes a conversion of the sailors and their ultimate salvation from the storm, the whale is recruited for the salvation of Jonah (in a sense), and the residents of Ninevah repent and are saved. But, Jonah is still not persuaded. He takes comfort in a vine, too much comfort so that God takes that false comfort away from him.

Now, I’m not doing justice to the scholarship in this, but suffice it to say that this is so important a subject, that the book of Jonah is read on the most high holy day of the Jewish calendar, the Day of Atonement. I think the emphasis there is on God’s mercy, God’s will, and the importance of repentence.
This short four chapter book of Yonah in the Tanach is full of such important ideas and concepts that I always find it somewhat incongruous to read the discussions of Yonah on this forum, which invariably revolves around the whale and abstract connections to Christian scriptures. Here in the book of Yonah is the Universal God, the God of all people, not limited to a territory or a people. Here is the concept of repentance and God’s forgiveness, available to all, not only to the Jew but also to those who need to put God in an animate or inanimate form, who have not reached understanding and accepting of Torah.
 
This short four chapter book of Yonah in the Tanach is full of such important ideas and concepts that I always find it somewhat incongruous to read the discussions of Yonah on this forum, which invariably revolves around the whale and abstract connections to Christian scriptures. Here in the book of Yonah is the Universal God, the God of all people, not limited to a territory or a people. Here is the concept of repentance and God’s forgiveness, available to all, not only to the Jew but also to those who need to put God in an animate or inanimate form, who have not reached understanding and accepting of Torah.
Thank you, but in these forums there WILL always be a connection to Christian scriptures. As Christians, we believe that the Hebrew scriptures are central to our belief, but that those scriptures have been fulfilled for all time in Jesus Christ.

As my previous post emphasizes, Christians have a lot to learn about the book of Jonah, on its own merits, for the reasons that I stated so respectfully, in my undoubtedly inadequate way.

OH, you’re right, it’s hard to get into an organized discussion in this website. The next post in a thread can take the discussion spinning in a totally unimaginable direction. One can only try to offer hope and nudge someone towards the Truth. Were it only true that we were as effective as Jonah was with the sailors and with the Ninnevites.
 
I personally believe jonah experienced some sort of death (possibly drowned)

jonah 2:3
for thou didst cast me into the deep, into the heart of the seas and the flood was round about me, all thy waves and thy billows passed over me.

Jonah 2:5-6
the waters closed in over me:weeds were wrapped about my head, at the roots of the mountains i ‘‘WENT DOWN TO THE LAND WHOSE BARS CLOSED UPON ME FOREVER’’ yet thou didst bring my life back up from ‘‘THE PIT’’

to me it sounds like jonah died, descended to the dead(Sheol, or Hades in greek) and on the third day rose aagin prefiguring the death and resurrection of Christ.

1 peter 3:19
‘‘in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison’’ (remember in jonah 2:5 ‘WENT DOWN TO THE LAND WHOSE BARS CLOSED UPON ME FOREVER’’ )

read matthew 8:23-27 to see how the story of jesus calming the storm parallels the story of jonah on the boat

here are some parallels

*Both Jesus and Jonah were on a boat
*Both were fast asleep
*There arose a great storm in both events
*The sailors on jonahs boat said ‘pray to your god, maybe he can save us from perishing’’
''The disciples say to jesus ‘‘save, lord, we are perishing’’

Then a few chapters later in matthew 16 when jesus entrusts the keys to peter he says to him
‘‘blessed are you simon bar-Jonah’’ (son of jonah)

Jesus is showing us that he is the new Jonah, just like he is the new moses, noah, adam etc

now read luke 24:27 (Jesus talking to the 2 disciples on the road to emmaus)

''And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. ‘’
 
This short four chapter book of Yonah in the Tanach is full of such important ideas and concepts that I always find it somewhat incongruous to read the discussions of Yonah on this forum, which invariably revolves around the whale and abstract connections to Christian scriptures.
Hi,
not abstract, but very clear connections…

Matthew 12:39-40
But he (Jesus) answered and said unto them,
“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;
and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale;
so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”
 
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