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blackst
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Scripture says that joseph was Jesus father, why does scripture say this?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Because a foster father (which is what St. Joseph is) is still a father. One does not have to be a biological father to be a father.
St. Paul calls himself a father to St. Timothy (and others); he wasn’t their biological father but Scripture still refers to him as a father.
St. Joseph is the father of Jesus–his ‘earthly foster father’. St. Joseph watched over Mary and the child; he took them to Egypt to escape the persecution of Herod, he worked hard to support them; we know from St. Mark that Jesus later was a carpenter himself so it’s 99% certain that St. Joseph, who was a carpenter, taught Jesus his own skills. . .
St. Joseph loved and cared for Mary and Jesus with all his heart and soul, God bless him!
St. Paul calls himself a father to St. Timothy (and others); he wasn’t their biological father but Scripture still refers to him as a father.
St. Joseph is the father of Jesus–his ‘earthly foster father’. St. Joseph watched over Mary and the child; he took them to Egypt to escape the persecution of Herod, he worked hard to support them; we know from St. Mark that Jesus later was a carpenter himself so it’s 99% certain that St. Joseph, who was a carpenter, taught Jesus his own skills. . .
St. Joseph loved and cared for Mary and Jesus with all his heart and soul, God bless him!
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blackst
Guest
Matthew states that Jesus was the offspring of Joseph, geneology does not refer to an adoptive father but the biological parent, it’s says the ancestery of who Jesus was decended from, not who rasied him or taught him? It says son of David son of Abraham, it gives the lineage of Joseph not Mary.
I know Jesus was to fulfill scripture, but why doesn’t the jew recognize Jesus as the messiah. If there is anything special about the jew then why hasn’t God reveiled this to them?
I know Jesus was to fulfill scripture, but why doesn’t the jew recognize Jesus as the messiah. If there is anything special about the jew then why hasn’t God reveiled this to them?
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Tantum_ergo
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You seem to forget that the apostles (the first Christians) were Jews. . .and their first converts were among the Jewish people. So God DID reveal this to them.
You also need to remember that St. Matthew’s gospel was directed primarily at the Jewish people in terms that they would understand. . .and that he doesn’t just stop there and never go on further to reveal Jesus’ true nature as Son of God. Why, in today’s Gospel, God the Father at the baptism of His Son revealed, “This is My Beloved Son”. . .
You need to take passages in context, not only in the Scripture chapter, but in the book (the gospel of Matthew), as well as the entire Scripture (Old and New Testament), and Sacred Tradition. It all comes together as a whole, not in cherry picked parts. What may seem a contradiction if read as a single passage, without context, becomes clear when read in context.
You also need to remember that St. Matthew’s gospel was directed primarily at the Jewish people in terms that they would understand. . .and that he doesn’t just stop there and never go on further to reveal Jesus’ true nature as Son of God. Why, in today’s Gospel, God the Father at the baptism of His Son revealed, “This is My Beloved Son”. . .
You need to take passages in context, not only in the Scripture chapter, but in the book (the gospel of Matthew), as well as the entire Scripture (Old and New Testament), and Sacred Tradition. It all comes together as a whole, not in cherry picked parts. What may seem a contradiction if read as a single passage, without context, becomes clear when read in context.
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Nita
Guest
Actually, Matthew does not state that Jesus was the offspring of Joseph. In fact, Matthew breaks with the whole preceding format of “father of…” and identifies Joseph only as the “husband of Mary”. Regarding Jesus’ parentage, only Mary is mentioned - as being the one “of whom Jesus was born”.
Mt. 1:16 and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.
Mary was a Jew, Joseph was a Jew, Elizabeth was a Jew, St. John the Baptist was a Jew, the apostles were Jews, …
Hope this helps.
Nita
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blackst
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If we take scripture in it’s context it say’s to forgive 70 by 7 and then Jesus says if they don’t listen have nothing else to do with them. He says love your eneny and hate your parents and yourself, in context or taken by verse Jesus contradicted himself throughout the scripture, I have come to judge i have come not to judge in the gospel of John, I am the way the truth the life, then he tells us to pray to the Father, he blesses the poor in spirit then says i give life more abundantly, he says be perfect and then says no one is good except the father including himself, he gave power to the aplostles not weakness, boldness to proclaim truth.
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I bring peace, I bring the sword to divide, no laughter, where is joy, it is not mentioned in the Gospels. I have come to fulfill the law, then goes about breaking the law, says to love and to love is to obey my commands.
Blessed are the meek they shall inherit the earth, do not conform yourself to the world.
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Benadam
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St. Joseph loved and cared for Mary and Jesus with all his heart and soul, God bless him!
I think that Joseph experienced the removal of Original Sin and the Grace to remain sinless for the rest of his life. That because Jesus like other children formed an image of a man from his father on earth.
Joseph made a profoundly radical decision before the Incarnation was revealed to him. It seems to me that he is provided with the spiritual helps in the fullness he could receive them. To recieve God fully requires a clean pure heart.II believe that it is harmonious and fitting, that Jesus’ father figure would be prerpared to receive help in the abundance the Father wants to give it.
I’m thinking that Joseph’s heart was revealed before hand as a witness to creation ( especially the angel) to who he is. Himself included.
I believe Jesus experienced perfect human love from Mary ‘and’ Joseph.
If not then it would be the only thing He taught without it being a reality to Him. It would be truth taught in faith.
Jesus entered the world as a receiver not a giver, vulnerable and in need. I find it incongruous with the rest of the human bonds that surrounded Jesus for the father son bond to not be included in His preperation.
All of those who prepare the way for Jesus had moments of redefinement when the Incarnation is revealed to them, , Elizibeth when the sound of Mary’s voice reached her ears, her son John from that experience in her womb. John and his mother receive the Good News and grace to answer it’s call through Mary’s voice.
The revelation isn’t triggered by anything external for Joseph, it was triggered by a commitment to Mary and given to him from dreamstate. Like Jacob when his head lay on the rock.
I think what a father is supposed to mean to a son is the meaning of Joseph to Jesus.
I think that Joseph experienced the removal of Original Sin and the Grace to remain sinless for the rest of his life. That because Jesus like other children formed an image of a man from his father on earth.
Joseph made a profoundly radical decision before the Incarnation was revealed to him. It seems to me that he is provided with the spiritual helps in the fullness he could receive them. To recieve God fully requires a clean pure heart.II believe that it is harmonious and fitting, that Jesus’ father figure would be prerpared to receive help in the abundance the Father wants to give it.
I’m thinking that Joseph’s heart was revealed before hand as a witness to creation ( especially the angel) to who he is. Himself included.
I believe Jesus experienced perfect human love from Mary ‘and’ Joseph.
If not then it would be the only thing He taught without it being a reality to Him. It would be truth taught in faith.
Jesus entered the world as a receiver not a giver, vulnerable and in need. I find it incongruous with the rest of the human bonds that surrounded Jesus for the father son bond to not be included in His preperation.
All of those who prepare the way for Jesus had moments of redefinement when the Incarnation is revealed to them, , Elizibeth when the sound of Mary’s voice reached her ears, her son John from that experience in her womb. John and his mother receive the Good News and grace to answer it’s call through Mary’s voice.
The revelation isn’t triggered by anything external for Joseph, it was triggered by a commitment to Mary and given to him from dreamstate. Like Jacob when his head lay on the rock.
I think what a father is supposed to mean to a son is the meaning of Joseph to Jesus.
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puzzleannie
Guest
no, the geneologies in Matthew or Luke do not specifically state Joseph (or any of the other ancestors) are so biologically. It just doesn’t say that. Joseph is the father of Jesus by Jewish law of that era, the same way in civil law in my state today, a man would be considered the legal father of any child borne by his wife no matter who was the biological father (barring any of the far-out lawsuits we hear about).
your second paragraph does not make sense to me. What is the question?
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FCEGM
Guest
Let’s look at a bit of the genealogical listing Matthew gives:
And what do you notice in the above? “The father of. . . , the father of. . . the father of. . . .” and then “the Father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born”. Matthew is very clear that Joseph is the husband of Mary, but not the father of Jesus.
Further, the rest of the chapter makes the specific point that Jesus is not the physical son of Joseph:
The genealogy is perfectly consistent with the practice of the times by the Jews whereby an adopted son took on the father’s lineage. Therefore, according to Jewish tradition, Jesus would be given the genealogy of his adopted father. Matthew, however, is presenting not just a genealogy, but is making specific connections of Jesus to important figures in Jewish history, showing how Jesus is connected to them and the fulfillment of all their expectations.
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banjo
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Matthew knew Jesus was not the “offspring of Joseph” (cf. Mt 1:18-21).
Matthew presupposes the virginal conception of Jesus who was a member of the house of David by the command of God. If Joseph had been Jesus’ father, the genealogy would have been unnecessary; everyone who knew Joseph knew also that he was of the tribe of Judah. At the time of Christ, Jewish law permitted a man to adopt a boy by solemnly declaring him to be his son (Strack-Billerbeck). In this way Jesus comes to be a son of David.
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Benadam
Guest
One of David’s sons is in Mary’s lineage isn’t it?
The dignity of Joseph’s geneology as it concerns the Incarnation flows from the geneology that he trully received flesh from.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
When the OP made the original post, he stated, “Scripture states that Joseph is the father of Jesus”. . .(only later did he bring up the Matthew genealogy).
I had thought that the OP was referencing Luke in which Mary calls Joseph Jesus’s father (“Your father and I have been searching for you”). . .and as such, I stated (I think correctly), that St. Joseph IS Jesus’ foster, earthly father, and that one does not need to be the ‘biological’ father for Scripture to call someone a father.
I had thought that the OP was referencing Luke in which Mary calls Joseph Jesus’s father (“Your father and I have been searching for you”). . .and as such, I stated (I think correctly), that St. Joseph IS Jesus’ foster, earthly father, and that one does not need to be the ‘biological’ father for Scripture to call someone a father.
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blackst
Guest
If it was the tradition to use the geneolgy of the Father then scripture would not be true, geneolgy comes from the blood line, not who rears a child but who gives life, Yahweh, Eloheim, Jehovah would be the Father then he would be desended not from david and Joseph’s lineage but The Virgin Mary.
My Second paragraph, says that the jewish people are chosen by God as a superior race would have been told by Gold that Jesus was the Messiah, the Jews claim tht God made a covent with them and gave them orders to commit genocide. If they are chosen and don’t know the truth then someone is lying, what can be believed by this race.
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Tantum_ergo
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Hon, I’ll suggest the same thing to you I did on another thread you posted. . .PLEASE check out the Catechism, the library here and This Rock. It looks as though you have a lot of questions that need good solid answers from ONE source. . .and until you do have that ‘one source’ under your belt, I think it will not be good for you to have to deal with lots of posters, even though most of them will probably give you good solid answers.
Wait a bit and go to the ‘big source’, pray, and take things ONE AT A TIME, and God bless you.
Wait a bit and go to the ‘big source’, pray, and take things ONE AT A TIME, and God bless you.
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Benadam
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I think you are right since fatherhood is tied to image and likeness as Scripture seems to support in Genesis.
1 This is the book of the generation of Adam. In the day that God created man, he made him to the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female; and blessed them: and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son to his own image and likeness,
This is the first birth that Adam’s meaning in relation to the child is mentioned. The generations are prefaced by a rementioning of the source of Adam’s image and likeness which seems to implicate that image and likeness rather than bloodline is the primary characteristic of fatherhood.
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blackst
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Genesis 3: 22 Now man has became like one of us? Who is us?
And the Jews claim that God told them to commit Genocide.
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Benadam
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Adam has become a judge for himself about what is good or evil. I think ‘us’ refers to all other beings that possess the power to judge. Which I *think *is proper for every creature in heaven according to St Thomas Aquinas. God includes Adam who it isn’t proper to and that being the reason eternal life in the garden is closed to him lest he be amongst the eternally fallen.
I’m not understanding what you are referencing in regards of genocide
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thistle
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What has any of this got to do with the thread title “Joseph Jesus Father?”
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chrisb
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Perhaps he is trying to illustrate how confusing the Sacred Text is to the initiated?
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Tantum_ergo
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I did recommend to him, since he identifies himself as being Roman Catholic, to check the catechism, the library and This Rock for help, but he said that the Catechism could be interpreted in a lot of different ways so that wasn’t helpful. . .
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