Joseph Jesus Father?

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blackst said:
If it was the tradition to use the geneolgy of the Father then scripture would not be true, geneolgy comes from the blood line, not who rears a child but who gives life, Yahweh, Eloheim, Jehovah would be the Father then he would be desended not from david and Joseph’s lineage but The Virgin Mary.

My Second paragraph, says that the jewish people are chosen by God as a superior race would have been told by Gold that Jesus was the Messiah, the Jews claim tht God made a covent with them and gave them orders to commit genocide. If they are chosen and don’t know the truth then someone is lying, what can be believed by this race.
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The Jews carried a burden and preserved a holy place for Jesus. Look at what they are chosen from, This is the people who trace their blood back to Adam. The person who’s fault this all is. Adam and Eve, who’s journey of consciousness, visible pattern of life, disposition towards God have become the foundation of what we have become after the fall. Their pattern of fallen life is an undercurrent shaping history. That is the pattern astrologers find in the stars the pattern gnostics define as revelation of the divine-self, the modern age uses as proof that the tail of the dragon is swallowed by it’s head.That the dragons tail hasn’t become a human foot that has crushed the dragon head.

AS for genocide. If they had completed it like God said a lifestyle of slavery would be unkown naturally abhorent. Because Joshua didn’t wipe everything out , because he didn’t enforce genocide it became common for the people who have become the archetype for national identity in the human mind, to define fellow humans as so beneath them in dignity as to constitute a different species altogether. The Canaanites may have even become the stuff of legend rather than the dog imagery given to them by the Jews as an enemy within their borders.

they are the chosen but that’s a mixed bag. " Those who are first shall be last" Their unique link to our origins make them something very last in regards of salvation history. That should put a twinkle in your eye.
 
thistle said:
What has any of this got to do with the thread title “Joseph Jesus Father?”
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I wrote this in response to a post that moved me. I am new first day here, forgive me if you can if I’m saying alot, it is all scripture, it contradicts itself and this is what I was trying to portray.

Grace and Peace to you.
 
I am at peace with the scripture’s geneology, the language was archaic, and not clear, we don’t know the intention of Matthew, your posts have been so helpful, thank you.

Grace and peace.
 
Benadam said:
One of David’s sons is in Mary’s lineage isn’t it?
The dignity of Joseph’s geneology as it concerns the Incarnation flows from the geneology that he trully received flesh from.
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According to A New Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, “There is, …] no indication in scripture that Mary was of David’s line.” 712d
 
banjo said:
According to A New Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, “There is, …] no indication in scripture that Mary was of David’s line.” 712d
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These two Nathan’s aren’t the same person?

Luke Ch 3

**31 Who was of Melea, who was of Menna, who was of Mathatha, who was of Nathan, who was of David, **

Kings2 Ch 5

**and there were born to David other sons also and daughters: **

14 And these are the names of them, that were born to him in Jerusalem, Samua, and Sobab, and Nathan, and Solomon,
 
banjo said:
According to A New Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, “There is, …] no indication in scripture that Mary was of David’s line.” 712d
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Ya know, even so, Scriptures teach that Christ is the seed of David in regards of the genetic make-up of His flesh. That and that His flesh just began in the womb for no apparent reason means there is a hidden bloodline.

That it isn’t listed in scriptures doesn’t offer evidence that it can’t be true and that is necessary when scripture offers this evidence that it is

.Jesus is the seed of David after the flesh and born of a virgin.

The hidden royal bloodline of Jesus, carefully guarded from exposure, subject to no one’s observation, generation after generation seems to have happenned before Jesus not after like in the ‘Da Vinci Code’

Silly gnostics.

The royal line that goes into the past would be preserving a holy place in the beginning for this purpose. Preparing the soil for the seed of the Woman.

They would make a better story.

True rulers, who’s subjects measure themselves by, they just don’t know it. Lives dedicated to holiness kept safely obscure from the scandal of a public rule. Appearing only a couple of times when things got really bad.😃

Proving they are the People of God because God has
“lead them not into temptation but delivered them from evil.”
 
Benadam said:
Ya know, even so, Scriptures teach that Christ is the seed of David in regards of the genetic make-up of His flesh.
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I would like to investigate this further; would you post the scriptural passage(s) which teach this?
 
banjo said:
I would like to investigate this further; would you post the scriptural passage(s) which teach this?
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I’m not sure what part of the quote you wish to investigate but the seed part is explicit the gene’s part is implied by the word ‘according’.

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 Which he had promised before, by his prophets, in the holy scriptures, 3 Concerning his Son, who was made to him of the seed of David, according to the flesh,
 
Benadam said:
I’m not sure what part of the quote you wish to investigate but the seed part is explicit the gene’s part is implied by the word ‘according’.

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 Which he had promised before, by his prophets, in the holy scriptures, 3 Concerning his Son, who was made to him of the seed of David, according to the flesh,
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A quote from the Navarre Bible Commentary regarding 2 Sm 7:12-16. “After the exile this (Son of David) is the title which is most often applied to the Messiah, and the writers of the New Testament, of course, are at pains to point out that Jesus is the “son of David” (cf. Mt 1:1; 9:27; Rm 1:3). The liturgy of the Solemnity of St. Joseph, Husband of the Blessed Virgin, includes this text, because it is he who is the guarantor of the Davidic descent of Jesus (Mt 1:20) through being “of the house of David” (Lk 1:27).” [Emphasis mine].

From the same source regarding Rm 1:3 (which is what I believe you are quoting here) is the following comment:
“However, by the Incarnation he assumed a human nature, being born of a Virgin (cf. Lk 1:27, 35): and so the Son of God became the Son of David, of the lineage of David. The phrase “according to the flesh” actually emphasizes the lowliness which the Incarnation implied—fragility, suffering, self-emptying, humiliation (cf. Jn 1:14; Phil 2:7).”[Again, emphasis mine].

Unless I have misunderstood, it is your personal opinion that Mary, the Mother of God, was *possibly *of the house of David and that it is through her that Jesus is of the Davidic line. My postings here are only intended to be helpful and I hope you accept them in that spirit.
 
A follow-up on my last post. Reading other sources I found the following…

Mary’s Davidic ancestry

St. Luke (2:4) says that St. Joseph went from Nazareth to Bethlehem to be enrolled, “because he was of the house and family of David”. As if to exclude all doubt concerning the Davidic descent of Mary, the Evangelist (1:32, 69) states that the child born of Mary without the intervention of man shall be given “the throne of David His father”, and that the Lord God has “raised up a horn of salvation to us in the house of David his servant”. [21] St. Paul too testifies that Jesus Christ “was made to him [God] of the seed of David, according to the flesh” (Romans 1:3). If Mary were not of Davidic descent, her son conceived by the Holy Ghost could not be said to be “of the seed of David”. Hence commentators tell us that in the text “in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God. . . to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David” (Luke 1:26-27); the last clause “of the house of David” does not refer to Joseph, but to the virgin who is the principal person in the narrative; thus we have a direct inspired testimony to Mary’s Davidic descent. [22]

While commentators generally agree that the genealogy found at the beginning of the first Gospel is that of St. Joseph, Annius of Viterbo proposes the opinion, already alluded to by St. Augustine, that St. Luke’s genealogy gives the pedigree of Mary. The text of the third Gospel (3:23) may be explained so as to make Heli the father of Mary: “Jesus. . . being the son (as it was supposed of Joseph) of Heli”, or “Jesus. . . being the son of Joseph, as it was supposed, the son of Heli” (Lightfoot, Bengel, etc), or again “Jesus. . . being as it was supposed the son of Joseph, who was [the son-in-law] of Heli” [23]. In these explanations the name of Mary is not mentioned explicitly, but it is implied; for Jesus is the Son of Heli through Mary.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Frs. Rumble and Carty, in Vol. II of Radio Replies (139), state that “It is certain that Joseph and Mary were relatives in the same line,” and also make reference to Lk 1:32 saying, “That is evidence enough that Mary herself by her own right was in the Davidic line.”

I don’t think this creates a controversy since it was Jewish custom to trace the genealogy through the male. Hence, Joseph was the “guarantor” of Davidic descent even though the latter information states that Mary herself provided Davidic descent.
Thanks for continuing to post, Benadam, it makes one keep looking.
 
Neither Jesus nor Mary could have given the Y-DNA of David to Jesus.

The Jews only requirement for the Jewish Messiah is that he be a descendant of David. Joseph, the adoptive father of Jesus could not pass the Throne of David to an adopted son. It must be bloodline determined. In fact, Joseph would have had to have been a King himself -the senior male heir of David through King Solomon.

Mary neither could have given Jesus David’s Y-DNA. Women don’t carry the Y-DNA, only the mt DNA which she got form St. Anne her mother. By the way, Mary’s father was St. Joachim - not Heli.

How could the Jews have recognized Jesus as their Moshiach? In fact, Scripture states: “Isn’t this Joseph the carpentar’s son?”
 
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2
Abraham became the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.
3
Judah became the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar. Perez became the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram,
4
Ram the father of Amminadab. Amminadab became the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5
Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab. Boaz became the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth. Obed became the father of Jesse,
6
Jesse the father of David the king. David became the father of Solomon, whose mother had been the wife of Uriah.
7
3 Solomon became the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asaph.
8
Asaph became the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, Joram the father of Uzziah.
9
Uzziah became the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah.
10
Hezekiah became the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amos, 4 Amos the father of Josiah.
11
Josiah became the father of Jechoniah and his brothers at the time of the Babylonian exile.
12
After the Babylonian exile, Jechoniah became the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13
Zerubbabel the father of Abiud. Abiud became the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor,
14
Azor the father of Zadok. Zadok became the father of Achim, Achim the father of Eliud,
15
Eliud the father of Eleazar. Eleazar became the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob,
16
Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary.

The Geneology is traced through the Fathers blood line, not Mary’s, and What about Holy Mary, she acted later in the Gospel’s like she didn;t know what was going on with her son, like when she found him in the temple and when he was circumcised, and simon and anna said there prophecy the bible said she pondered these things in her heart, did she forget the angels message to her he was :Gods creation? How did Jesus tell of the temptations in the desert by the devil, he was alone, right?

Grace and Peace, Seeker of Truth
 
These points you raise all were written by people who believed that Jesus was the Messiah after the fact. What about the Jews who di’nt believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Isn’t that the very reason that the Jews had the condemnation in the first place : for blasphmy?

How did Joseph pass his Y-DNA (David’s also) to Jesus so that Jesus is a descendant of David? Kingship is determined by bloodline, is it not?
 
Refer to Luke 3 which also gives Jesus’ supposed genealogy through Mary.

The Jews claim thier Moshiach is a human being. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus was fully human, like us in all things but sin. How did Jesus get his male Y DNA if he were a descendant of David?
pcusack1 said:
These points you raise all were written by people who believed that Jesus was the Messiah after the fact. What about the Jews who di’nt believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Isn’t that the very reason that the Jews had the condemnation in the first place : for blasphmy?

How did Joseph pass his Y-DNA (David’s also) to Jesus so that Jesus is a descendant of David? Kingship is determined by bloodline, is it not?
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Mary can not pass the "seed of David " to Jesus. It physically impossible since she doesn’t carry the male Y DNA.

If Jesus got his Y DNA form God, then God is his father, not David.
 
I just realized that the Scriptures refer to Jesus as “Son of God” and as “Son of David”. God gave Jesus His Y-DNA - a copy of David’s Y- DNA. That’s the answer I was looking for.

Thanks to all! God Bless.
 
Psalm 132:11 states that:

The LORD swore an oath to David, a sure oath that he will not revoke: "One of your own descendants I will place on your throne-

If Jesus is not a descendant of Joseph, and Mary can’t pass the Y-DNA of David to Jesus, then how can we say that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah who must be a “descendant of David”?
 
I may have a solution to the DNA dilemma.

“The Torah based tradition is that the Jewish nationality is determined by the mother’s status and that tribal membership follows the father’s lineage.” pg 41 “DNA and Tradition”.

This means that Jesus was a Jew accroding to Mary’s lineage, and a descendant of the Tribe of Juda by adoption by Joseph.

Now Ps 138:11 tells us that"The Lord swore a promise to David and he will remain true to it: “I will keep your descendance on your Throne”

Therefore Jesus must have been given David’s Y-DNA by God at conception. Thus we have Jesus named “Son of God” and “Son of David”.

The only probelm is that Kingship is passed on by bloodline. We don’t know that Jesus has David’s bloodline for sure since he is adopted only by Joseph. I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt.
 
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