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Nicea325
Guest
Foolishness! I call it convenient theology.
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pablope
Guest
Then maybe you should think about the following passages…
Romans 11;
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Heb 10:
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God…36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.
Moreover…In Matthew 25:31-46 the sheep are welcomed into heaven while the goats are sent to hell Verse 46 boldly says that the righteous will go to eternal life.
Question for you:
**Are they declared righteous or made righteous (hence are righteous)? **
Verses 35 and 36 tell us that they did righteous acts, i.e. they did not use Christ’ righteousness to cover their unrighteousness or to make their unrighteous things appear righteous (before God).
The goats are condemned to hell because they did not do righteous acts or they are not unrighteous (1 Corinthians 6:9). They are not declared unrighteous but they are indeed unrighteous.
This parallels Matt 22: 1-14, parable of the wedding banquet…
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.
13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
This invitee was thrown out…he was given any new garment…nor could he use anybody’s justification or righteousness…not even Christ’s.
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Wandile
Guest
Yes I’m 100% sure
People have been excommunicated for less. This man is preaching a “gospel” that is neither scriptural nor true. Its a deception that leads to falsehood and the early Church was warned about such as these men. :imsorry:
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: I see you have no scriptural evidence to justify your tradition of OSAS. OSAS is a minority among Protestants.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Mi,As an Evangelical I believe I am saved after accepting Jesus as my personal savior. Regardless of what sins happen after that I am still saved.
Should I forgive people who I wronged and avoid sin? Yes. But I’m not going to run to the Church with my tail between my legs every time I sin.
**We all sin we’re fallen. I never really understood the whole concept of confession by Catholics. **
God forgives my sins no matter what because I’m saved. Weird difference.
You say you never understood the concept of confession suggesting that you have been steeped in study and after much study have no understanding. This is admirable.
Rather than expound on theology…it is like this…I am sitting here typing and I lift my eyes to the Lord and say forgive me for using heroin, snorting cocaine…stealing from the man down the street to feed my habit…and I am saved…cause I confessed with my lips and believe with my heart…and I go to church…and I am working on my issues…
Now on the other hand I go to my priest weekly…and I say…Father I use heroin, snort cocaine and I steal…now you can imagine how humbling that might be…you can also imagine that week after week of confessing the same sins my priest probably says…my son…to confess your sins requires repentance…my son you have been absolved with the understanding that you are to resolve not to commit those sins and yet you do…my son in the name of Christ I cannot offer you absolution and I suggest you get some help…because your sinning is ruining your life…
This is the difference…there is something about speaking to somebody about what you do and hearing that you are asked to resolve not to commit that sin again…This is something I cannot do while typing and closing my eyes and lifting them up as I confess my sins privately in my closet.
Now I don’t have a tail and I don’t mind humbling myself…I can understand that you don’t understand based on your in depth study…that is how I see it…
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: I see you have no scripture to support your tradition. By the way once saved always saved is a minority among Protestants. Could you tell us how YOU have justified it with God?
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TimothyH
Guest
1 John 1:9 cannot be taken apart from James 5:16, Matthew 9:6-8 and John 20:22-23
James 5:16 says we are to confess our sins to one another. Matthew 9:6-8 says that the authority to forgive sins has been given to men on earth. John 20:22-23 says that a special gift of the holy spirit was given to the apostles to forgive and retain sins. All these passages are part of the same inspired word of God. They all have to be taken together as a complete message. One cannot be understood apart from the other.
It’s the classic case of Romans 10:9 vs Matthew 7:21.
*because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
"Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21) *
Both are part of the Bible. Both are the inspired word of God. The Catholic says Amen to both. What anyone else says is up to themselves.
-Tim-
James 5:16 says we are to confess our sins to one another. Matthew 9:6-8 says that the authority to forgive sins has been given to men on earth. John 20:22-23 says that a special gift of the holy spirit was given to the apostles to forgive and retain sins. All these passages are part of the same inspired word of God. They all have to be taken together as a complete message. One cannot be understood apart from the other.
It’s the classic case of Romans 10:9 vs Matthew 7:21.
*because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
"Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21) *
Both are part of the Bible. Both are the inspired word of God. The Catholic says Amen to both. What anyone else says is up to themselves.
-Tim-
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CopticChristian
Guest
Augustine was the Bishop of Hippo, a Catholic Christian community. In 430 Hippo was over run by Vandals and a germanic tribe that had converted to Arianism. After 430 Christianity was not the largest group. Does this diminish the importance of the belief because it was no longer the majority?
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jason19847
Guest
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
I am uploading joseph prince video and audio What about 1 Jn 1:9?
this is video link ; vimeo.com/40365507
audio link ; 4shared.com/mp3/UC2Hyt3H/What_About_1_John_1-9_-_Unders.html
I am uploading joseph prince video and audio What about 1 Jn 1:9?
this is video link ; vimeo.com/40365507
audio link ; 4shared.com/mp3/UC2Hyt3H/What_About_1_John_1-9_-_Unders.html
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jason19847
Guest
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
I am uploading joseph prince video and audio What about 1 Jn 1:9?
this is video link ; vimeo.com/40365507
audio link ; 4shared.com/mp3/UC2Hyt3H/…_-_Unders.html
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jason19847
Guest
i fond this in joseph prince web page
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
Ephesians 1:7
People have said to me, “Pastor Prince, I was taught that only my past sins — from the day I was born until the day I became a Christian — have been forgiven, and that my future sins are not forgiven until I confess them and seek forgiveness.”
My friend, when Jesus died on the cross, how many of your sins were future?
Unless you are more than 2,000 years old, all your sins were future then! Jesus took them all upon Himself, nailed them to the cross and declared, “It is finished!” So if you are not forgiven of all, then you are not forgiven at all.
“You mean Jesus also died for the sin that I have just committed?”
Yes!
“And also for the sins which I will commit?”
Yes! That is why He said, “It is finished!”
But many of us are inconsistent in our believing. One part of us says, “God has forgiven me of all my sins.” But another part says, “Yes, but I must still confess my sins to be forgiven of them.” Are you like that?
Beloved, you are forgiven not because of your work of confession. Your confession cannot wash away your sins. You are forgiven because of the blood of Jesus shed for you. His blood alone cleanses you.
You cannot believe that you are forgiven of your past, present and future sins, and still think that there is something for you to do to make that forgiveness complete. If you do, then it becomes your work too, not Jesus’ alone.
Is there a place for confession of sins? My friend, if you have just sinned, you can always tell God about it without feeling condemned because you know that you already have forgiveness and that Jesus was condemned in your place. But you don’t confess your sins to God in order to be forgiven. You already have total and complete forgiveness because of the blood of Jesus!
Thought For The Day
You are forgiven because of the blood of Jesus shed for you. It is His blood alone that cleanses you.
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bingbing
Guest
Actually, Joseph Prince’s teaching say that “the grace of God leads you to repentance.”
Confessing sins may mean different things. Are you confessing to GOD, or are you confessing to MAN? Are you confessing because the Lord has “poked” you to confess, or because it has become a “meaningless practice”? Are you confessing because you have received God’s grace and forgiveness or because you want to be forgiven?
Basically, JP’s preaching says that there is no shortage when it comes to God’s forgiveness. And the act of confessing your sins should be checked before you do it, whether you are doing it for God or for yourself.
I am not a bible analyst, but as I read 1 John 1:9, I realized that the verse that preceeds it is connected.
*1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. *
By the verses above, we can see that this whole chunk is talking about humility vs self righteousness and pride. Work of Jesus vs the Work of Men.
As JP preaches, forgiveness is given to us through grace and faith (Work of God). If we were not forgiven in the first place, God will not hear us out. Then confessing would be pointless (work of Men).
We should read the scriptures by how they are written and not interpret them however we want them to be interpreted.
Confessing sins may mean different things. Are you confessing to GOD, or are you confessing to MAN? Are you confessing because the Lord has “poked” you to confess, or because it has become a “meaningless practice”? Are you confessing because you have received God’s grace and forgiveness or because you want to be forgiven?
Basically, JP’s preaching says that there is no shortage when it comes to God’s forgiveness. And the act of confessing your sins should be checked before you do it, whether you are doing it for God or for yourself.
I am not a bible analyst, but as I read 1 John 1:9, I realized that the verse that preceeds it is connected.
*1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. *
By the verses above, we can see that this whole chunk is talking about humility vs self righteousness and pride. Work of Jesus vs the Work of Men.
As JP preaches, forgiveness is given to us through grace and faith (Work of God). If we were not forgiven in the first place, God will not hear us out. Then confessing would be pointless (work of Men).
We should read the scriptures by how they are written and not interpret them however we want them to be interpreted.
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Havard
Guest
That characterization of Catholicism seems rather lacking in charity.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
i was intrigued by joseph prince when i first saw him on tv a few years ago. he was different. he had the charisma that the other televangelist preachers have, all of these televangelist preachers sound alike after awhile. although when i first heard him, i knew that he had what it would take to become successful - meaning he was attractive, he seemed to have his act together as far as how to deliver his teachings. he is not a fire and brimstone televangelist like some of the others, but someone who seems to want to help people feel good about themselves through the teachings of Christ. i guess it should be called “lite” christianity because it doesn’t go very deep in my opinion. they want to get a few chuckles out of the audience and make them feel good so that they return.
they don’t seem to be hurting for followers. he tries to present his messages as simple as possible. i never got in the habit of watching him and i don’t watch him anymore. maybe they really feel they are helping people and are sincere about their work and that they are fulfilling the Gospel of spreading the Good News. maybe some of them do have a gift. however, at the same time i think a lot of them are like con men. i haven’t come to that conclusion yet about joseph prince because i don’t know that much about him.
they don’t seem to be hurting for followers. he tries to present his messages as simple as possible. i never got in the habit of watching him and i don’t watch him anymore. maybe they really feel they are helping people and are sincere about their work and that they are fulfilling the Gospel of spreading the Good News. maybe some of them do have a gift. however, at the same time i think a lot of them are like con men. i haven’t come to that conclusion yet about joseph prince because i don’t know that much about him.
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MartinJordan
Guest
He’s from my side of the woods (place of residence that is). I have nothing against his character and he’s pretty clean but unfortunately preaching prosperity. A student of Kenneth Hagin so simply an offshoot of an offshoot of the Assembly of God churches.
Nothing new to see here:shrug:
MJ
Nothing new to see here:shrug:
MJ
C
Cat
Guest
I would be careful about stating that “once saved always saved is a minority among Protestants.” Do you have a poll, or some kind of stats, to back this claim up?
I’m not sure if it’s true. You may be right, but I would like to see you post some authoratative documentation when you make this statement.
I suspect that there are quite a few Protestant denominations, especially among the evangelical denoms, but also among the non-denoms, that teach OSAS. And since evangelical Protestantism is growing by leaps and bounds, it’s very possible that OSAS denoms could outnumber “falling from grace” denoms.
I grew up in the Conference Baptist denomination, and we learned OSAS. In fact, the teaching by Joseph Prince that the OP posted was exactly what we were taught and believed.
As Catholics, I and my husband both struggle to be “aware” of sin or feel guilty about sin, because we were taught for the first 47 years of our lives to not dwell on ourselves or do “self-examinations of conscience” because these practices demonstrated a lack of faith in Christ’s completed work on the cross, and also demonstrated a self-centeredness that was sinful. We believed, and in fact, often sang a chorus: “Let’s forget about ourselves, and concentrate on Him, and worship Him.”
(Maybe this is why the form of the Mass doesn’t matter to me, because to me, Mass is all about Jesus, and that’s Who I concentrate on. So I guess I’m still attending Mass with an evangelical Protestant mindset.)
We also believed that asking Him to forgive us was insulting to Him, since He had already forgiven us. The only reason to “confess” our sins to Jesus was to remind OURSELVES that we had sinned and needed to pay more attention to Jesus. Our belief was that if we kept our focus on Jesus instead of ourselves, we would become more like Him and sin less and less.
We interpreted I John 1: 9, and other “confession” verses as applying to the one-time salvation prayer, or “sinner’s prayer.” When a sinner prayed to ask Jesus to forgive their sins and come into their heart, Jesus forgave their sins. No more “confession” was necessary, although it didn’t hurt to discuss our sins and weaknesses with Jesus and ask Him for help to overcome them.
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JustaServant
Guest
Historically Protestants have been divided between Calvinism (of which OSAS is a stepchild) and Arminianism (where you can lose your salvation, although they still look at salvation as a one-time experience). Hasn’t changed in 400 years.
As for evangelicals “growing by leaps and bounds”. that is mainly relegated to the US.
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Nicea325
Guest
Unbiblical belief. If you are already saved,then why do even bother going to ANY church,read the Bible and better yet…believe in God? That type of theology is simply a cop-out and pure laziness.As an Evangelical I believe I am saved after accepting Jesus as my personal savior. Regardless of what sins happen after that I am still saved.
Should I forgive people who I wronged and avoid sin? Yes. But I’m not going to run to the Church with my tail between my legs every time I sin.
We all sin we’re fallen. I never really understood the whole concept of confession by Catholics.
God forgives my sins no matter what because I’m saved. Weird difference.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
coincidentally, i just turned on the tv and went to EWTN and didn’t want to watch that show so i went down a channel and joseph prince is on. he really is a compelling speaker. i don’t doubt his sincerity of believing in the Gospel and God’s love. i wasn’t sure of his ancestry. i don’t see him preaching the gospel of prosperity like joel osteen.
at least joseph prince talks about God and Jesus and reads scripture during his presentations.
at least joseph prince talks about God and Jesus and reads scripture during his presentations.
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
All Protestant preachers talk about God and Jesus and read scripture during their presentations – but they teach heresy.
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