Joseph Smith - a look at the man

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Paul G:
What ever our differences on doctrines, practices and protocols, our faith and hope is in Christ.

Paul
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Not in Christ alone but to the Most Holy Trinity. As I understand it Catholics accept a valid baptism from many other Christian faiths and if confirmed that they were baptised in another Christian faith there is no need to baptise them again but LDS baptisms are considered invalid in the Catholic Church.

PioAndrew
 
Of course you know that Catholics are forbidden from joining the Freemasonry craft. Here is a declaration on Masonic Associations from the Vatican from the then prefect of the faith Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger before he became the Holy Father.

PioAndrew
 
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PioAndrew:
As I understand it Catholics accept a valid baptism from many other Christian faiths and if confirmed that they were baptised in another Christian faith there is no need to baptise them again but LDS baptisms are considered invalid in the Catholic Church.

PioAndrew
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I can understand and respect the Catholic Church’s position on this. The other Christian faiths you speak of pose no threat to the authority of the Catholic Church. However, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints does. It is either Catholic or LDS, in terms of claimed priesthood authority.

Paul
 
Paul G:
I can understand and respect the Catholic Church’s position on this. The other Christian faiths you speak of pose no threat to the authority of the Catholic Church. However, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints does. It is either Catholic or LDS, in terms of claimed priesthood authority.

Paul
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I would not perceive the LDS “baptisms” as a threat to the Catholic Church at all. They are simply invalid. Jesus Christ himself was baptized, as an example for us, by St. John the Baptist with the Most Holy Trinity present, so that we too might follow in Jesus’s example.

PioAndrew
 
He was not however so much a professional ‘con artist’ as someone who seems to have been rather superstitious and gullible himself and who in turn sought out and sometimes exploited the superstitious and gullible. He was also supremely interested in religious truth and the evidence of his life is that he believed in himself at least as much as his followers did…

This isn’t to suggest that his life’s work wasn’t tainted by his flawed character. We can’t really know how conscious he was of the dishonesty of his tactics. But I think it to be a bit too much to say that he was ONLY and ALWAYS a charlatan. I think he was a complex character with an abnormally high tolerance for ‘cognitive dissonance’–the ability to believe mutually exclusive things at the same time.
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That is GOOD. I missed it the first time around. He was genuinely convinced in what he was doing. That is obvious to anyone he met.
 
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flameburns623:
By the way–Smith was not a Freemason until long after the publication of the Book of Mormon. So it is unlikely that he wore a sheet and pretended to be an angel for Martin Harris while the Book of Mormon was being transcribed.
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Oh, really??? Hmmm. There is a mormon site that has a VERY lengthy article entitled **"**Origins, Connections and Coincidences Between Mason and Mormon Temple/Templar Rituals" That’s not something that can be overlooked.

PioAndrew
 
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PioAndrew:
Oh, really??? Hmmm. There is a mormon site that has a VERY lengthy article entitled **"**Origins, Connections and Coincidences Between Mason and Mormon Temple/Templar Rituals" That’s not something that can be overlooked.

PioAndrew
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Hey Dude, I don’t think that is a Mormon site, but an anti-Mormon site. If you want to compare anti-Catholic sites to anti-Mormon sites then try that,and tell us how they compare. Tell us some anti-Catholic stuff too if you are only going to read anti-Mormon stuff. Check it out and let us know if you think the Anti-Cathlics present the truth. I will be anxiously awaiting your answer. 😃 BJ
 
No, flame is right. The Masonic stuff was not added in until Nauvoo, where JS became a Mason. Probably because they weren’t having much success with the Indians, so they added it to the religion to attract more Euros. Especially since he agreed with the anti-Catholic attitude of Masonry.
 
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PioAndrew:
I would not perceive the LDS “baptisms” as a threat to the Catholic Church at all. They are simply invalid. Jesus Christ himself was baptized, as an example for us, by St. John the Baptist with the Most Holy Trinity present, so that we too might follow in Jesus’s example.

PioAndrew
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Thanks and sorry, the word “threat” was the wrong word to use as it brings up ideas of security and protection in the mind of the reader. I suppose what I was trying to say is that Protestant faiths do not have, or claim a priesthood authority to act in the name of G-d. However, both the Catholic Church and the LDS Church claim the same authority – I don’t presume to tell Catholics what they believe, but what I have read on other threads leads me to understand that the Catholic Church claims an unbroken line of succession from Peter for its authority. As a latter day saint, my faith is sufficient to lead me to believe that Heavenly Father restored priesthood authority using Joseph Smith.

I agree that we should follow Jesus’ example, in the example that was given and many more points of the gospel which he taught us to follow.

Paul
 
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Jerusha:
No, flame is right. The Masonic stuff was not added in until Nauvoo, where JS became a Mason. Probably because they weren’t having much success with the Indians, so they added it to the religion to attract more Euros. Especially since he agreed with the anti-Catholic attitude of Masonry.
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So is it correct that what you are saying is that the Masons had a lot of Indians in their membership, so JS joined the Masons to attract their Indian members? This is very confusing. Why would he do that? What date did he join and how many Indians joined the LDS church from the Masons? What did they add to the religion to attract more Euros? How many Euros did what they added by joining the Masons attract. Does all of this make a lot of sense to you? It is nonsense to me and I do think you have been hitting the Irish Coffee again. Tsk… Tsk… do try to stick to facts and not fiction.
:rolleyes: BJ
 
Actually, many Indians got involved in Masonry because it is opposed to sick religion, including Mormonism. Catholicism has the capacity to criticize itself. That convinces me that Masonic criticism of Catholicism is no longer appropriate.
 
Jesus assailed sick religion. The person who gives to the church (synagogue) while depriving his/her own elderly parents. The person who follows many rigid religious rules, while not being loving toward his/her fellow human beings. The person who has many ethical shortcomings in his/her own life, while condemning others for their sins, either real or perceived. I could do a scripture search, but I think you know which ones I am talking about.

Marx, of course, assailed ALL religion, calling it a drug.
 
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Jerusha:
Jesus assailed sick religion. The person who gives to the church (synagogue) while depriving his/her own elderly parents. The person who follows many rigid religious rules, while not being loving toward his/her fellow human beings. The person who has many ethical shortcomings in his/her own life, while condemning others for their sins, either real or perceived. I could do a scripture search, but I think you know which ones I am talking about.

Marx, of course, assailed ALL religion, calling it a drug.
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So what you are saying is LDS give to their Church, but do not care for their parents or children?
You are saying that they follow the commandments, but do not take care of the poor or less fortunate.
LDS condem other persons, but have greater sins than the persons they condem.
And you are saying you believe in Marxism, that all religion is a drug?
Am I correct in this assessment of your posting?
Wow! I thought you were Catholic. Are you also condeming your own religion, by subscribing to Marxism?
I agree that there are individuals in any church who follow some of the things you point out above, but that is the purpose of a organized Church, to help people realize their failings, and try to be better in following the example of Jesus Christ.
We all are sinners and some of us do better at keeping the commandments than others. I am trying all the time, and failing a lot, but I just get up and try again.
Some people think they have arrived at perfection, but they are wrong. It is a continuous life process to reach perfection and we will never actually reach it. There was only one perfect man and that was Jesus Christ. All we can do is try our best and He has done the rest through His great sacrifice upon the cross, as an atonement for our sins. He loves us all equally, black, brown or yellow or white. We are his children and equal in his love.
I don’t understand the thought process of a few Catholics on this forum, that Jesus loves anyone in the world less than anyone else. We believe as LDS that He loves us all equally, no matter what religion or color. We have always believed that and will always believe that. I personally believe that is what he means when he says “Love one another as I have loved you”. “Love your neighbor as yourself” “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you” The bible is full of Jesus asking us to treat each other with love and respect. He does not specify only Catholics, only Mormons, only Indians, only Chinese, or only Blacks, or only Muslims. He says everyone in the world.
I hope you can understand this concept, and try to use more respect and tolerance in these threads, and elsewhere in your life.
BJ
 
As for the title of this thread about the man Joseph Smith, I am in the middle of a book about him called “Remembering Joseph” personal recollections of those who knew the Prophet Joseph Smith. By Mark L. McConkie. It is a very wonderful book and tells the stories of real persons who knew him. It tells of many healings of the sick and of his personality and love for his people and his love of God. These people testify of the man and his character. It is written by members and non members alike, who all knew or met him personally. Not one had a bad word to say about this man. They all gave him the highest accolades a human being could receive. They told of his strength and faith, and his generosity and his immense love for all. I can’t even imagine where you are all digging up the things you say. Did these people know the man? Are they some of his enemies? He had many enemies, to the point he had a bodyguard. These enemies would have told any lies they could tell to besmirch his name and character. They hated him as Christ’s enemies hated him. Just more proof that he was a true Prophet of Jesus Christ’s Church. If he weren’t no one would pay any attention to him and his little Church. Just my humble opinion, worth nothing to you, I know.
BJ
 
Only in Islam and Mormonism is a martyr someone who dies while killing other people. :eek:
 
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PaulDupre:
Only in Islam and Mormonism is a martyr someone who dies while killing other people. :eek:
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Joseph turned himself in to the authorities, and only at the last minute had a weapon to defend himself and his brother and friends. Not a fair fight and he did not intend to die. The mob intended to kill him because of his faith and so he died. Anyone who dies for what he believes, even while defending himself from villains is a martyr. Islam is slightly different in that these poor brainwashed individuals are sent out to kill innocent people who are total strangers to them. They have no idea who they are killing, and mostly it is their own people they kill, women and children included. But, the infamous PaulDupre strikes again. Welcome back to the forum.
👍 BJ
 
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