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SirThomasMore
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Read your Bible.
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SirThomasMore
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The very unfortunate history of the Father Marcial Maciel of the Legion of Christ
Red Herring. Not a prophet
Cardinal Ratzinger is reported to have problems with the truth about the actions of priests and the Church’s reaction to the discovery of abuse.
Red herring “is reported” is not fact. We know for a fact Joseph was a liar.
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n this instance you “report” is every bit as strong as the “facts” you know about Joseph Smith.
Not true. What I have posted was eye-witness accounts
Archbishop Jozef Kowalczyk and a host of Polish priests that lied about their loyalty and commitments to be spies for the communist government as they served the church.
Another red herring. Not a prophet. And frankly, unless you have served under communist rule and the constant fear of death, you truly have no standing to make comments on this one
The statement was great Christians; it has nothing to do with prophets. This is known as deflection and fear of truth.
Nope. You keep wanting to compare people who were not prophets with someone who claimed to be. I am happy with agreeing with you that he was no more a prophet than the folks you keep wanting to compare him to
Joseph Smith lived in fear of death his entire life.
lol…you are now comparing people who feared for their lives because of communist strong arms with a guy who feared for his life because of his own wrongdoing…
It is strange to be so quick to condemn another, when imperfection abounds in the world.
I am still amazed that you justify Joseph, an alleged prophet and compare him to people who were not prophets. One must presume that you do not believe Joseph was a prophetAgain, deflection, the statement was great Christians. Either the pope, this archbishop and other Polish priests and Father Maciel were not great Christians or they were. I present to you they were and are. Are you denying them? This is a direct question, please answer it Yes or No.
Nice try…but your dodges won’t work. Nope. You keep wanting to compare people who were not prophets with someone who claimed to be. I am happy with agreeing with you that he was no more a prophet than the folks you keep wanting to compare him to
If we are so ready to judge another, we have to accept to be judged by the exact same standard. Joseph Smith never claimed to be a perfect man. I think you will also find the same for Pope Benedict XVI, Father Marcial Maciel, or the many priests in Poland. Should these men be condemned for lying or should they be forgiven? I quickly come to Father Maciel’s side. He accomplished so much that was good, but he was also imperfect.
So then Joseph was on the same level as a Priest? That is all I needed to know. Thank you
You attempt to defame and yet run from truth. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword. How many popes would you like me to identify? Is that helpful? Does it build up the faith of others?
I am agreeing with you. I agree that Joseph was no more a prophet than those you need to compare him to
You are so bitter and negative. I pity you.
That is so typical of Mormons. Once they realize they have nothing left to say, they fake pity. Do not pity me. I am not bitter at all. There you go again judging me. Who was it again that told us not to judge? I remember! Jesus! I was brought from the depths of bad and led into the awesome. But I thjnk you so very much for your concern.
Be Blessed!
Red Herring. Not a prophet
Cardinal Ratzinger is reported to have problems with the truth about the actions of priests and the Church’s reaction to the discovery of abuse.
Red herring “is reported” is not fact. We know for a fact Joseph was a liar.
I
n this instance you “report” is every bit as strong as the “facts” you know about Joseph Smith.
Not true. What I have posted was eye-witness accounts
Archbishop Jozef Kowalczyk and a host of Polish priests that lied about their loyalty and commitments to be spies for the communist government as they served the church.
Another red herring. Not a prophet. And frankly, unless you have served under communist rule and the constant fear of death, you truly have no standing to make comments on this one
The statement was great Christians; it has nothing to do with prophets. This is known as deflection and fear of truth.
Nope. You keep wanting to compare people who were not prophets with someone who claimed to be. I am happy with agreeing with you that he was no more a prophet than the folks you keep wanting to compare him to
Joseph Smith lived in fear of death his entire life.
lol…you are now comparing people who feared for their lives because of communist strong arms with a guy who feared for his life because of his own wrongdoing…
It is strange to be so quick to condemn another, when imperfection abounds in the world.
I am still amazed that you justify Joseph, an alleged prophet and compare him to people who were not prophets. One must presume that you do not believe Joseph was a prophetAgain, deflection, the statement was great Christians. Either the pope, this archbishop and other Polish priests and Father Maciel were not great Christians or they were. I present to you they were and are. Are you denying them? This is a direct question, please answer it Yes or No.
Nice try…but your dodges won’t work. Nope. You keep wanting to compare people who were not prophets with someone who claimed to be. I am happy with agreeing with you that he was no more a prophet than the folks you keep wanting to compare him to
If we are so ready to judge another, we have to accept to be judged by the exact same standard. Joseph Smith never claimed to be a perfect man. I think you will also find the same for Pope Benedict XVI, Father Marcial Maciel, or the many priests in Poland. Should these men be condemned for lying or should they be forgiven? I quickly come to Father Maciel’s side. He accomplished so much that was good, but he was also imperfect.
So then Joseph was on the same level as a Priest? That is all I needed to know. Thank you
You attempt to defame and yet run from truth. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword. How many popes would you like me to identify? Is that helpful? Does it build up the faith of others?
I am agreeing with you. I agree that Joseph was no more a prophet than those you need to compare him to
You are so bitter and negative. I pity you.
That is so typical of Mormons. Once they realize they have nothing left to say, they fake pity. Do not pity me. I am not bitter at all. There you go again judging me. Who was it again that told us not to judge? I remember! Jesus! I was brought from the depths of bad and led into the awesome. But I thjnk you so very much for your concern.
Be Blessed!
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shelby2014
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I have to say I am pretty upset about the polygamy thing. I have heard so many different reasons for it, from “reputable” sources, but they are all different. As a woman I find it shocking. I do find it odd that it was “commanded” for a short time period, although I have heard the justification of taking care of all the widows out west. (From my Mormon friends growing up).
A few questions, though - if the plan God had for marriage and sexual relations was polygamous, why did he only make one Eve? Although “one” is not explicitly stated, the Bible says man will leave his parents and cling to his WIFE (not wives) and the TWO will become one flesh.
When I read the Old Testament stories of polygamous “Fathers” it seems to me that they were considered holy in spite of their polygamous relationships, not because of, and oftentimes those relationships got them in trouble.
On a lighter side, what comedian hasn’t taken the opportunity to question why a man would want TWO wives, let alone one?
A few questions, though - if the plan God had for marriage and sexual relations was polygamous, why did he only make one Eve? Although “one” is not explicitly stated, the Bible says man will leave his parents and cling to his WIFE (not wives) and the TWO will become one flesh.
When I read the Old Testament stories of polygamous “Fathers” it seems to me that they were considered holy in spite of their polygamous relationships, not because of, and oftentimes those relationships got them in trouble.
On a lighter side, what comedian hasn’t taken the opportunity to question why a man would want TWO wives, let alone one?
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lax16
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You are missing the point. I have never met a Catholic that thinks priests or popes are perfect. However, this is the point mormons use to prove the apostasy.
Therefore, use it on your own church. You will see that your church is apostate also.
Last I checked the Catholic Church was not sending out missionaries by the thousands proclaiming the LDS church is in apostasy. Have you heard otherwise?
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lax16
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Florentine
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Lax and Thomas More, I like your style.
I sometimes follow these LDS threads and often times people will change subjects or nitpick on a single tertiary statement in order to change the substance of the argument.
Truth is truth, and while I observe these threads it is easy to tell who is interested in truth and who is interested in arguing, misrepresenting, and covering up to save face.
Often times, good points or direct questions are not acknowledged by LDS, and when you quote entire pieces of text, it reinforces those points which they do not want to address.
I sometimes follow these LDS threads and often times people will change subjects or nitpick on a single tertiary statement in order to change the substance of the argument.
Truth is truth, and while I observe these threads it is easy to tell who is interested in truth and who is interested in arguing, misrepresenting, and covering up to save face.
Often times, good points or direct questions are not acknowledged by LDS, and when you quote entire pieces of text, it reinforces those points which they do not want to address.
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SirThomasMore
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I am humbled. Thank you.
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lax16
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Florentine-
Thank you - I pray I will always stand for truth.
Welcome to CAF!
Thank you - I pray I will always stand for truth.
Welcome to CAF!
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SirThomasMore
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Yes, I hope you never reLAX to the extent you are LAX in your defense of truth
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why_me
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why_me
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So for you as a catholic, Jesus was perfect and Mary was without sin and also, all the prophets of the old testament too. So prophets must be perfect? Nice to know.
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lax16
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I do not equate prophets of the Old Testament with Jesus and the Blessed Mother.So for you as a catholic, Jesus was perfect and Mary was without sin and also, all the prophets of the old testament too. So prophets must be perfect? Nice to know.
Do you?
The prophets of the OT were men from a very long time ago, living a completely different life than we can even imagine. I am not sure why you think that Catholics believe prophets are perfect?
Actually, my argument has been that prophets are imperfect, including yours, which is why I don’t know why LDS throw stones at the imperfection of the men of the early Church??? Please answer that for me.
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why_me
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Polygamy was never that big of an issue in the past. I remember high school, many years ago, where mormons were mentioned and that they practiced polygamy in their history. No one really cared. If mormons were polygamous, so what. It was their business. However, the question is not polygamy but whether or not the United States had religious freedom at the time of the early mormons. And the answer would be no. Mormons were persecuted because their religion was considered to be different. And we need to remember that we are dealing with frontier people, a people who were not exactly opened minded, a people who killed indians for sport. This was the environment the mormons found themselves in.
Then, we need to remember bigotry. Mormons tended to migrate in blocks and this threatened stability for many non-mormons. It would be no different today in the US if a religion that was considered different moved into a community by the hundreds or thousands. People would react.
And then finally with polygamy…it was stopped to protect the peace. The mormons were out there in utah and the federal army was on its way to mormonland not to say hello, but to cause trouble. Then the issue of statehood for utah. No polygamous territory would get statehood. And so, polygamy was recinded. It actually lasted almost 50 years.
Why polygamy? because god commanded it and mormons wanted to do what god commanded. It was not out of lust etc. If people think that that was the reason–lust, then both men and women would be considered no more than a monkey and that would be insulting to the mormons involved in the practice.
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why_me
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You have to speak to stephen. He is the one who keeps bringing it up.
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SirThomasMore
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barnesms
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This is typically deflection and twisting of reality. You want to judge Joseph Smith as somehow unfit to be a prophet. Being a prophet is a calling not a reflection of perfection. You want to condemn him for being sealed to more than one wife, but it has not been proved by any historian that any of sealed wives had marital relationships with Joseph. NOT A SINGLE HISTORIAN. There is rumors and repeated rumors that have run amok, but no evidence by any historian has been brought forward.
When I quickly provide equally base actions by Catholic leaders you, out of the blue, begin saying, “Oh, that is different. We don’t call them prophets, so it is not nearly as bad as Joseph.” My response is pull that beam out before you start seeking the mote in another. Use the same standard you judge others to judge yourself.
Explain Father Maciel’s multiple issues of immorality of both males and females. Explain it and answer why did the Catholic Church allow it to exist for so long. How did John Paul II, one of the most powerful men of the 20th century; a great prophet and pope, elevate Father Maciel so high in the Church when so much, according to your standards, was so black?
Don’t deflect, don’t change the topic, don’t ask other questions, answer it.
You continue this incomprehensible statement about LDS missionaries and apostasy, but it escapes every time. You either have not understood the definition of apostasy or you have created a new one.
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why_me
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SirThomasMore
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SirThomasMore
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