Joseph Smith and Swedenborgianism

[BartBurk]

Look where Joseph probably got many of his ideas:

amazon.com/Heaven-Hell-Emanuel-Swedenborg/dp/0877854769

Especially note the Mormon reviewer:

“As a Mormon, I was fascinated and suprised that this book parallels so well to Mormon scriptures on the afterlife. Although written decades before the birth of Joseph Smith and the founding of Mormonism, Swedenborg describes such Mormon concepts as the “Celestial Kingdom,” “Three degrees of glory” and “Celestial Marriage.” This book even details other things I thought were unique Mormon teachings like the pre-judgement “Spirit World” existing here on earth and being divided into a Spirit Prison and a Paradise. This is a must-read for Mormons who want to know more about the orgins of the Celestial Kingdom doctrine. Smith admitted he read this book before writing his scriptures on the subject, which explains the parallels. This is a gem of a resource and completely compliments Mormon doctrine on the afterlife.”

 

[Tonks40]

Look where Joseph probably got many of his ideas:

amazon.com/Heaven-Hell-Emanuel-Swedenborg/dp/0877854769

Especially note the Mormon reviewer:

“As a Mormon, I was fascinated and suprised that this book parallels so well to Mormon scriptures on the afterlife. Although written decades before the birth of Joseph Smith and the founding of Mormonism, Swedenborg describes such Mormon concepts as the “Celestial Kingdom,” “Three degrees of glory” and “Celestial Marriage.” This book even details other things I thought were unique Mormon teachings like the pre-judgement “Spirit World” existing here on earth and being divided into a Spirit Prison and a Paradise. This is a must-read for Mormons who want to know more about the orgins of the Celestial Kingdom doctrine. Smith admitted he read this book before writing his scriptures on the subject, which explains the parallels. This is a gem of a resource and completely compliments Mormon doctrine on the afterlife.”

I thought this comment of the above review was interesting:

“Swedenborg also maintained that people of every faith or lack thereof could achieve Celestial glory and marriage resulting from the union of wisdom with spirit advanced through charity. Joseph Smith taught that a person could only obtain Celestial glory through baptism in the Mormon faith either in this life or in the afterlife. He also stated that no one could enter the Celestial kingdom without his explicit consent. These self-serving ideas, among countless other teachings by Smith are in direct contradiction with Swedenborg’s writings. It is shamefully incorrect to use the divinely inspired writings of Swedenborg to justify the blatant plagiarism’s of the falsely prophetic Joseph Smith.”

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

google.com/search?hl=en&q=Swedenborg+mormonism

exmormon.org/mormon/mormon034.htm

In D. Michael Quinn’s excellent book “Early Mormonism and the Magic World View,” he gives a very fascinating source of Smith’s “revelations” on the afterlife. Quinn offers an exhaustive examination of the sources for the 1832 D&C Section 76 “Vision” of the “three degrees of glory.”
…
Not only does Quinn make a strong case that Smith knew all about Swedenborg’s ideas, but he also shows that his book “Heaven and Hell and Its Wonders” was a book in Smith’s hometown library since 1817. Quinn also writes that “Nine miles from Smith’s farm, in 1826 the Canandaigua newspaper also advertised Swedenborg’s book for sale. The bookstore offered Swedenborg’s publications for as little as 37 cents.”

If you ever want to know details about the Mormon afterlife, read Swedenborg’s book. Smith liberally plagiarized from it to come up with his D&C “visions” of the celestial, telestial and terrestrial kingdoms. But Swedenborg’s works are definitely the originals.

In fact, a faithful Mormon and scholar Craig Miller has also written on this subject in a paper titled “Did Swedenborg Influence Mormon Doctrine?.” Miller lists 19 unique similarities between Swendenborg’s fictional “Celestial Kingdom” and that of Joseph Smith.

See for yourself.

swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/

swedenborg.newearth.org/

i4m.com/think/history/swedenborg.htm

lists places JS copied from,
craigwmiller.tripod.com/interest.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

1.              There are three heavens (D&C 76, Heaven and Hell chapter 5).  Swedenborg divided the heavens into three: celestial, spiritual, and natural, with divisions so absolute that direct communication is generally not possible without divine help.  Those of lower heavens in general cannot see the inhabitants of the higher heavens.  Communication does occur between higher and lower realms, but those of the lower heavens are, in general,  not so aware of its occurrence.  The communication originates from what Swedenborg calls Acorrespondences,@ which are in the nature of the relationship of a symbol or allegory and which are a central feature of all creation, providing the means by which higher or more inner degrees of reality, beginning with God Himself, are related, typically in cause and effect fashion, to lower, more external degrees.  The LDS parallel of Swedenborg=s heavens are the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial heavens.  Swedenborg=s terms for the heavens are all biblical, and can be found in the scriptures that Mormons believe refer to these heavens, 1 Cor 15:40-42.[8]  The counterpart of Swedenborg=s spiritual heaven is the LDS terrestrial heaven, which despite its name, is not depicted as being earthlike in LDS scripture.  To describe the lowest of the heavens Joseph Smith invented a new term, telestial.  Swedenborg stated that the heavens were arranged in layers around the central Sun of heaven, or the Lord God Jesus Christ.  The natural heaven is the furthest from the center.

2.              Priesthood robes are worn in heavenly marriage ceremonies.  Swedenborg witnessed a marriage ceremony in heaven in which the husband wore robes like those of Aaron while the wife was arrayed as a queen.  (D&C 131:2, Conjugial Love 20, 21).  LDS doctrine mostly speaks of two orders of the priesthood, the Melchizedek and Aaronic, but also speaks of the patriarchal order as another order of the priesthood (D&C 132).  Swedenborg=s description of the attire of the heavenly couple in the marriage ceremony of Cojugial Love 21 will strike a chord with all Mormons who have witnessed a temple marriage.[9]

3.              There are three heavens in the celestial glory or kingdom (D&C 131:1, Arcana Coelestia 9993).  Swedenborg states that there are three heavens, the celestial, spiritual and natural, and two kingdoms of heaven, the celestial and the spiritual. The organizational relationship between the three heavens and two kingdoms is complex and has long been a source of discussion among students of Swedenborg.  In Arcana Coelestia 9993 [2], Swedenborg states that the celestial kingdom has three divisions, and also stated in Arcana Coelestia 5922 [2] that the celestial kingdom is the celestial heaven.  Through the Lord=s direction and by means of angels that communicate between them they act in unison.  Mormons understand D&C 131:1 to mean that the celestial heaven, Aglory@ in D&C 131:1, is divided into three heavens.  Swedenborg also used the word Aglory@ to refer to kingdoms, Arcana Coelestia 5922 [2].  While, again, the exact  interpretation of the three heavens-two kingdoms distinction remains a matter of discussion in the New Church, the parallels with LDS doctrine are still obvious.

4.              You must be married in heaven to inherit the highest heaven (D&C 131:2, Conjugial Love 54(5), 155).  Monogamy is central, according to Swedenborg, to all of  heaven, although there are a few exceptions, such as sincere celibates and some Islamics in polygamous relationships, who live at the fringes or Aside@ of the lower heavens.  Marriage mimics (or, in Swedenborg=s term and concept, Acorresponds to@) the relationship between God and His Church since their ultimate destiny is approach unity.  Again, Swedenborg states that an absolute requirement to inherit the highest heaven is heterosexual marriage.  Marriage, according to Swedenborg, means the separate minds of man and wife become so closely spiritually linked that they become one mind (and married couples  in heaven, seen from a distance, may appear on occasion as one individual).  The Doctrine and Covenants simply states that the highest heaven in the celestial glory cannot be attained without eternal marriage (D&C 132:2).  Without eternal marriage men and women cannot be fulfill the purpose of their creation or reach the highest degree of spiritual attainment which is possible for them, or in Swedenborg=s words, cannot approach the Lord (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol.3, p.333, Conjugial Love 155).  Swedenborg saw married partners in heaven as being two halves of  good and truth or love and wisdom.  The unity of these two is fundamental to creation, the husband bringing wisdom externally and love internally and the wife bringing love externally and wisdom internally to the union. ...

craigwmiller.tripod.com/interest.htm

 

[Eliza10]

I’m not surprised to read that Smith plagerized someone else’s ideas to come up with his “divine” Mormon doctrine, because that certainly seems to have been his way. I think it takes a lot of blind faith to believe otherwise. I’m glad our faith does not require such leaps against logic!

The local papers here once wrote a series of long articles on Smith, since his hometown is out here. I remember reading that his fantastic history of America - with its made-up tribes and peoples and chariot wars that are not verified by non-Mormon historians or anthropologists - those story fables studied as “Real History” by Mormon children in weekly classes - were directly plagerized from a novel that was available at the time.

And here it is; I looked it up. The book is referred to as the Oberlin Romance. The below link is a commentary by an author remarking on the “strange” parallels between the Spalding’s Ohio Oberlin story and Smith’s “history”. It sounds like everyday plagerism to me! Of course, Spaldings was written first.

solomonspalding.com/SRP/SRPpap04.htm

I am sure more similar articles can be found on the net. This just looked like a good one.

Also I am sure that the Hill Cumorah looked like a fascinating mystical place that would spark a boys imagination (and it just happened that Smith came from a family with quite a bit of imagination). The Hill is a “moraine” left by retreating glacial ice, on basicly a plain. When you see such a hill (and there are others around here like it) rising out of the plain, it an imagination-inspiring site.

Here is an arial view of Hill Cumorah (hill is center right):
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/chphotos/photo2.jpg

Spalding’s hill was in fact an Indian burial mound, whereas our NY hill is just another interesting glacial feature of our area. But, they do look similar. I can see how Smith’s imagination would be sparked seeing a picture of Spaldings mound, and seeing that hill right in his own backyard, and imagining himself to be the great discoverer of history like the narrator of Spaldings book. And sure enough, Smith became the great attention-getting star! , the key-central figure everyone looked up to, of his very own religion. Sounds like a Narcissist’s dream to me, and, wouldn’t you know - Narcissists make* great* storytellers, and the believable ones, too, since they believe their own stories, even as they make them up.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[BartBurk]

It is doubtful that Joseph and Sidney used the Oberlin Romance. If they had used that it would have been destroyed. It is likely that Spalding had another novel which he left at a Pittsburgh printing shop which was used to help concoct the Book of Mormon. This other novel, which has not been found, used names actually found in the Book of Mormon according to neighbors familiar with it. The Oberlin Romance does not do that. In any event I am sure that if Joseph and Sidney used such a novel they destroyed it, and it will not be found. The Solomon Spalding web site which Dale Broadhurst has put together has a lot of information which is potentially damning, but there is still a lot more research which needs to be done. I have discussed this with people who are doing the research. They claim to have found sermons by frontier preachers which are almost the same as sermons which show up in the Book of Mormon. It will be interesting to see what they have found when they get around to publishing it. Plagiarism seems to be the way Joseph came up with most of his supposed revelations.

I’m not surprised to read that Smith plagerized someone else’s ideas to come up with his “divine” Mormon doctrine, because that certainly seems to have been his way. I think it takes a lot of blind faith to believe otherwise. I’m glad our faith does not require such leaps against logic!

The local papers here once wrote a series of long articles on Smith, since his hometown is out here. I remember reading that his fantastic history of America - with its made-up tribes and peoples and chariot wars that are not verified by non-Mormon historians or anthropologists - those fabvles studied as real history by Mormon children in weekly classes - were directly plagerized from a novel at the was available at the time.

And here it is; I looked it up. The book is referred to as the Oberlin Romance. The below link is a commentary by an author remarking on the “strange” parallels between the Spalding’s Ohio Oberlin story and Smith’s “history”. It sounds like everyday plagerism to me! Of course, Spaldings was written first.

solomonspalding.com/SRP/SRPpap04.htm

I am sure more similar articles can be found on the net. This just looked like a good one.

Also I am sure that the Hill Cumorah looked like a fascinating mystical place that would spark a boys imagination (and it just happened that Smith came from a family with quite a bit of imagination). The Hill is a “moraine” left by retreating glacial ice, on basicly a plain. When you see such a hill (and there are others around here like it) rising out of the plain, it an imagination-inspiring site.

Here is an arial view of Hill Cumorah (hill is center right):
Scriptures

Spalding’s hill was in fact an Indian burial mound, whereas our NY hill is just another interesting glacial feature of our area. But, they do look similar. I can see how Smith’s imagination would be sparked seeing a picture of Spaldings mound, and seeing that hill right in his own backyard, and imagining himself to be the great discoverer of history like the narrator of Spaldings book. And sure enough, Smith became the great attention-getting star! , the key-central figure everyone looked up to, of his very own religion. Sounds like a Narcissist’s dream to me, and, wouldn’t you know - Narcissists make* great* storytellers, and the believable ones, too, since they believe their own stories, even as they make them up.

http://solomonspalding.com/SRP/hills2.GIF

 

[why_me]

jefflindsay.com/oneday.shtml

It is quite amazing just what a book worm Joseph Smith was. Unfortunately, no one ever saw him with a book and his home library was quite barren. I do believe that JS the money digger and the supporter of magic, didn’t have time to research. But if so, the man was truly amazing to be so much and yet, be no one in his community. His neighbors were not impressed with his intellect.

 

[dosdog]

jefflindsay.com/oneday.shtml

It is quite amazing just what a book worm Joseph Smith was. Unfortunately, no one ever saw him with a book and his home library was quite barren. I do believe that JS the money digger and the supporter of magic, didn’t have time to research. But if so, the man was truly amazing to be so much and yet, be no one in his community. His neighbors were not impressed with his intellect.

A Professor Joshua Seixas was hired by Joseph Smith and his associates to leach them Hebrew. They originally hired another teacher who turned out to be very unsatisfactory, but they were determined to learn the language as well as they could. So, On November 21, 1835, they agreed to send someone to New York to find a Jew who was more qualified to teach them. On January 4, 1836, however, William E. M’Lellin and Orson Hyde were dispatched to the Hudson, Ohio, to find the right person. When M’Lellin returned on January 6, 1836, he reported that he had hired a teacher who was “highly celebrated as a Hebrew scholar, and proposes to give us a sufficient knowledge during the above term to start us reading and translating the language.” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 2:356). It was going to cost $320 for seven weeks, to have him teach forty “scholars.” He would arrive in about 15 days. Meanwhile, the group continued to study as best they could. On February 15, according to Joseph Smith’s History, they began “translating the Hebrew language, under the instruction of Professor Seixas, and he stated that we were the most forward of any class he ever instructed for the same length of time.” (2:396). It was this same Professor Seixas who published the Hebrew grammar they used. Seixas was apparently a professor at Oberlin College.

In 1834 Joshua Seixas published a little book titled Manual. Hebrew Grammar For the Use of Beginners, by J. Sexias, 2d ed. enlarged and improved. This was the manual that was used in the Kirtland school when Seixas came to teach Hebrew to Joseph Smith and his associates in 1836. In 1981 this manual was published in a facsimile edition by the Sunstone Foundation, Salt Lake City. It carried an introduction by Louis Zucker, entitled “Joseph Smith As a Student of Hebrew.”
nauvoo.com/nauvoo_beautiful.html

 

[dosdog]

Adair’s History of the American Indians
worldcat.org/wcpa/ow/ce21720246e085a9.html
Adair, James Originally published in 1775

Elias Boudinot (1740-1821)
A star in the West or, A humble attempt to discover the long lost ten tribes of Israel, preparatory to their return to their beloved city, Jerusalem.
The Second Advent, or coming of the Messiah in glory shown to be a Scripture doctrine, and taught by divine revelation, from the beginning of the world
by Elias Boudinot Language: English Type: Book : Microform
Publisher: Trenton, N.J. : D. Fenton & S. Hutchinson, 1815.
directtextbook.com/author/elias-boudinot
worldcat.org/wcpa/ow/128e55e54631b184a19afeb4da09e526.html

View of The Hebrew (i.e. BOM)
Ethan Smith’s book is largely a compilation of material from the works of other writers, particularly James Adair and Elias Boudinot

Both books argue that the American Indians are descendants of the Hebrews

Both books relate the discovery of buried records

Both books refer to inspired prophets and describe objects resembling the Urim and Thummim and the breastplate of the Hebrew high priest

Both books refer to written characters similar to Egyptian hieroglyphs

Both books claim that the Indians were separated into civilized and barbarous cultures and that the civilized people were exterminated by the barbarous Indians

Both books emphasize the destruction of Jerusalem, refer to the scattering and restoration of Israel, quote frequently from Isaiah, and claim that American Gentiles are to play an important role in restoring the Indians back into the house of Israel

Both books condemn pride and seeking of riches, and both praise the virtues of the Indians.

Both books describe the appearance of an important person on the American continent – Christ and Quetzalcotl

In addition, Ethan Smith discusses only one theory about the migration of people to the Americas. He holds that they took a northward journey across Asia to the Bering Strait and then spread southward. Adair mentions this theory once
But the parallels actually testify to the fact that the Book of Mormon agrees with many of the popular theories and speculation of the day
mormonstudies.com/author1.htm

 

[dosdog]

By 1842 Joseph Smith most likely had touched the subject of Kabbalah in several ways and versions, even if such contacts remain beyond easy documentation. During Joseph’s final years in Nauvoo, however, his connection with Kabbalah becomes more concrete. In the spring of 1841 there apparently arrived in Nauvoo an extraordinary library of Kabbalistic writings belonging to a European Jew and convert to Mormonism who evidently new Kabbalah and its principal written works. This man, Alexander Neibaur, would soon become the prophet’s friend and companion.
Neibaur has received little detailed study by Mormon historians, and his knowledge of Kabbalah has earned only an occasional passing footnote in Mormon historical work.121 Neibaur was born in Alsace-Lorraine in 1808, but during his later childhood the family apparently returned to their original home in eastern Prussia (now part of Poland). His father, Nathan Neibaur, was a physician and dentist, who family sources claim, was a personal physician to the Napoleon Bonapart and whose skill as a linguist made him of “great value” to Napoleon as an interpreter (claims perhaps inflated by posterity). Like his father, Alexander became fluent in several languages, including French, German, Hebrew, and later, English. He also read Latin and Greek. Family tradition claims that as the first child and eldest son, his father wished him to become a rabbi, and that the young Neibaur was begun in rabbincal training. However, at age seventeen he instead entered the University of Berlin to study dentistry, and completed his studies around 1828. Sometime shortly afterwards, he converted to Christianity and migrated to Preston, England. There he established a dental practice and married in 1833. In mid-summer 1837, Heber C. Kimball, Orson Hyde, and Joseph Fielding arrived in Preston. Neibaur had been troubled by several dreams about a mysterious book, and his first question for Joseph Smith’s apostles was whether they had a “book” for him–which of course they did. He was baptized with his family the next spring. On 5 February 1841 they departed for Nauvoo, arriving in Quincy, Illinois, on 17 April. Four days later Neibaur met Joseph Smith, and on 26 April he notes in his journal, “went to work for J. Smith.” Two day later he acquired a quarter-acre lot in Nauvoo, and on 1 June moved his family into their newly complete Nauvoo home on Water Street, a few blocks from Joseph Smith’s residence.122

Where and how Neibaur first came in contact with Kabbalah remains a mystery, though a careful evaluation of his history and personal travels offers a few hints. Given his father’s position, his childhood in western Poland, his studies in Berlin and his subsequent conversion to Christianity, some contact with a reservoir of Kabbalistic knowledge among Sabbatean or Frankist Jews should be considered.123 If he did indeed undertake rabbical studies in Poland prior to his university education, he could not have avoided some exposure to the subject. That Neibaur brought a knowledge of Kabbalah to Nauvoo has been mentioned in several studies of the period. For instance, Newel and Avery note in their biography of Emma Smith, "Through Alexander Neibaur, Joseph Smith had access to ancient Jewish rites called cabalism at the same time he claimed to be translating the papyri from the Egyptian mummies [which became his Book of Abraham]."124 That he not only knew something of Kabbalah, but apparently possessed a collection of original Jewish Kabbalistic works in Nauvoo, is however documented in material almost totally overlooked by Mormon historians
gnosis.org/jskabb3.htm

 

[why_me]

jefflindsay.com/myturn.shtml

Interesting, isn’t it?

There are always two sides to a story. The Swedenborgian slant has been around a long time, including at the time of JS.

I have read it and see very little comparison. However, I do admire Swedenborg for putting a unique understanding about heaven after researching the bible.

 

[BartBurk]

jefflindsay.com/oneday.shtml

It is quite amazing just what a book worm Joseph Smith was. Unfortunately, no one ever saw him with a book and his home library was quite barren. I do believe that JS the money digger and the supporter of magic, didn’t have time to research. But if so, the man was truly amazing to be so much and yet, be no one in his community. His neighbors were not impressed with his intellect.

That is not exactly true. One neighbor said he was an exhorter at local Methodist meetings. You might want to look at this:

signaturebookslibrary.org/skeptic/chapter2.htm

I’m pretty sure B.H. Roberts, an early Mormon historian and a member of the LDS Seventy, concluded that Joseph Smith had the talent to write the Book of Mormon. It also should be remembered the Swedenborgian influence seemed to have surfaced after Sidney Rigdon was definitely on the scene in the early 1830’s.

 

[why_me]

That is not exactly true. One neighbor said he was an exhorter at local Methodist meetings. You might want to look at this:

signaturebookslibrary.org/skeptic/chapter2.htm

Joseph did posess a bible in his home library and he was somewhat religious and he did somewhat favor the methodist church.

And please notice that he did have speaking ability but poor writing ability. Have you noticed the letter style of JS? Fairly bad.

For JS to write the book of mormon it would have taken reams of paper compounded by many pens that weren’t exactly ballpoints at that time. His writing ability was poor to say the least. And his hands would be covered with ink. And yet, unnoticed.

 

[BartBurk]

Joseph did posess a bible in his home library and he was somewhat religious and he did somewhat favor the methodist church.

He had access to more than a Bible through bookstores, libraries, etc. And I repeat that many of Joseph Smith’s revelations seemed to have come after 1831 when Rigdon was around. Rigdon was in on D&C 76 which most resembles Swedenborg. I always will believe Rigdon to have been a major inspiration behind Mormon theology until at least the late 1830’s. At that point Joseph went off on his own.

 

[why_me]

He had access to more than a Bible through bookstores, libraries, etc. And I repeat that many of Joseph Smith’s revelations seemed to have come after 1831 when Rigdon was around. Rigdon was in on D&C 76 which most resembles Swedenborg. I always will believe Rigdon to have been a major inspiration behind Mormon theology until at least the late 1830’s. At that point Joseph went off on his own.

Who knows? Joseph was not a known bookworm. He must have done all this late at night when all were sleeping. Please remember that JS was also out working during the day to support his parents who were not at all rich. The idea that JS wrote the book on paper as all but disappeared. Dan Vogel suggests some sort of automatic writing where JS wrote the book from the top of his head. Sounds impossible though. Check amazon for Dan Vogel’s book about JS.

Ridgon was very intelligent and a coup for the mormons to get. However, he went to his grave never denying the book nor ever making a confession. Strange, especially after he was booted out or left after a severe beating by a mob, a mob which tarred and feathered JS.

 

[BartBurk]

Who knows? Joseph was not a known bookworm. He must have done all this late at night when all were sleeping. Please remember that JS was also out working during the day to support his parents who were not at all rich. The idea that JS wrote the book on paper as all but disappeared. Dan Vogel suggests some sort of automatic writing where JS wrote the book from the top of his head. Sounds impossible though. Check amazon for Dan Vogel’s book about JS.

You are completely dismissing the idea that Joseph may have had help – especially from Rigdon and Cowdrey. And how do you know that Joseph was out working all day to support his parents? There really is no evidence of that at all.

 

[Eliza10]

(blah, blah, blah…)

dosdog, this is a discussion forum, do you discuss anything, or just clip long articles and paste them here? Because my understanding is that doing this is against forum rules.

I guess I just answered my own question by looking at your past posts, after clicking on your name. It seems that this is all you do. There is no rhyme or reason to what you pick to post. Its just long boring things it looked like you scanned off some book or internet page. No intellectiual discussion, no personal opinion.

So why are you on this forum?

Here is what one person responded to one of your cut-n-paste posts:

#9 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/report.gif
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_cad/post_old.gif Aug 4, '07, 8:24 am
Montalban http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_cad/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register(“postmenu_2545515”, true);
Senior Member
Join Date: August 27, 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 6,002

Re: The Catholic Church in Colonial America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Marie forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Thanks. *

I’ve added your link to my favorites to go through later when I have more time.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif

Interesting though it is, dosdog doesn’t discuss. He simply posts large tracts.

---

Fàilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.

 

[BartBurk]

Who knows? Joseph was not a known bookworm. He must have done all this late at night when all were sleeping. Please remember that JS was also out working during the day to support his parents who were not at all rich. The idea that JS wrote the book on paper as all but disappeared. Dan Vogel suggests some sort of automatic writing where JS wrote the book from the top of his head. Sounds impossible though. Check amazon for Dan Vogel’s book about JS.

Ridgon was very intelligent and a coup for the mormons to get. However, he went to his grave never denying the book nor ever making a confession. Strange, especially after he was booted out or left after a severe beating by a mob, a mob which tarred and feathered JS.

You need to do a little research. Sidney Rigdon’s grandson claimed Sidney told him he had helped with the Book of Mormon. It is also revealing that Sidney had all of his papers burned at the time of his death.

I suggest you read this:

mormonstudies.com/criddle/rigdon.htm

 

[Eliza10]

Who knows? Joseph was not a known bookworm. He must have done all this late at night when all were sleeping. Please remember that JS was also out working during the day to support his parents who were not at all rich. The idea that JS wrote the book on paper as all but disappeared. Dan Vogel suggests some sort of automatic writing where JS wrote the book from the top of his head. Sounds impossible though. Check amazon for Dan Vogel’s book about JS.

.

Now you are selling Dan Vogel’s book. I think you really are a mole LDS missionary.

Could Jos. Smith have done automatic writing? Certainly yes. Some Saints have been known to have this gift, but it is also well known that the devil immitates this gift. Therefore there have been many, many occult books and treatises written by Wiccans and devil worshipers and neocramancers using automatic writing. And since Smith was an occult practicer before his Mormon Stardom and up his last days, he would certainly be open to being a channel for the devil’s use of this tool.

Pardon me, but I don’t usually frequent the Non-Cath relgion forums. Those of you that do, please tell me: is this forum heavily infested with such moles? Because today is my first visit to this section and it looks to me that whyme and dosdog have their own agendas and just take up valuable space here on Catholic forums. Are there many more???

 

[Eliza10]

Okay, folks, I though you might want to see dosdog’s private post to me, just now:

Private Message: Re posts
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_cad/post_old.gif Today, 1:25 pm
dosdog http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_cad/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register(“postmenu_”, true);
Senior Member
Join Date: October 15, 2006
Posts: 610

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re posts
When you show an IQ higher than a lab rat I will talk to you so far you havent

If you dont like me - BITE ME

---

Except you do penance you shall perish
Obey Prelates they render an account of your souls
The manifold wisdom of God made known to principalities, powers in heavenly places through the church

forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/forward.gif forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/reply_small.gif​