Joseph Smith himself once boasted: "God...He will make me to be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it,

[Answersplease]

utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech15.htm

(Red color added to highlight the original text.)

Joseph Smith himself once boasted: "God

made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me to be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 363; also History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-20).

 

[AtticusFinch]

Pretty amazing, huh?

 

[ParkerD]

Pretty amazing, huh?

Indeed, the idea that God reveals knowledge to prophets and they teach the people is pretty amazing. The idea of revelation itself is pretty amazing–like the greatest of technologies, but on a spiritual level.

Here are some other quotes from the same talk and one that followed:

“… we calculate to give the Elders of Israel their washings and anointings, and attend to those last and more impressive ordinances, without which we cannot obtain Celestial thrones. But there must be a holy place prepared for that purpose…” (p. 362)

Aaron had received the washing and anointing and thus was prepared to act as an administrator and a priest with the Levitical authority. He also had been called to be “voice” for Moses since Moses felt himself to be “slow of speech.”

Another great quote:

“The Savior has the words of eternal life. Nothing else can profit us. There is no salvation in believing an evil report against our neighbor. I advise all to go on to perfection, and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. A man can do nothing for himself unless God directs him in the right way; and the Priesthood is for that purpose.”

This reminds of Moses’ declaration that God had directed the Israelites to become a “kingdom of priests” and “an holy nation.”

Ex. 19: 6
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Deut. 14: 2
2 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Deut. 26: 19
19 And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour; and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the Lord thy God, as he hath spoken.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Mormons, always explaining away what doesn’t align to their own idea of “religion”.

Lorenzo Snow was present when the Prophet Joseph Smith gave the funeral sermon for King Follet, an elder in the Church, during the April conference of the Church. In his discourse, the Prophet taught:
“ * God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another. . . . *
“These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. * It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible * ” ( * Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, * 345–46).
Referring to those teachings from the Prophet’s sermon, which were printed in the * Times and Seasons * and the * Millennial Star, * LeRoi C. Snow, President Snow’s son, wrote:
“In President Snow’s own copy of the * Times and Seasons, * which I now have, he drew more particular attention, with his own indelible pencil, to this part of the Prophet’s King Follett sermon than any other reference in all the six volumes. This great hope in man’s destiny, through strict obedience to the gospel, was in his mind so constantly that he frequently referred to it in the home circle, in his public discourses, both when addressing aged parents and when talking to little children, and many of his intimate friends know that it was a favorite theme in private and confidential conversations.
“Few comparisons were more frequently repeated by President Snow in his public speaking than the following:
“‘As an illustration, here is an infant upon its mother’s breast. It is without power or knowledge to feed and clothe itself. It is so helpless that it has to be fed by its mother. But see its possibilities! This infant has a father and a mother, though it knows scarcely anything about them. Who is its father? Who is its mother? Why, its father is an emperor, its mother is an empress, and they sit upon a throne, governing an empire. **This little infant will some day, in all probability, sit upon his father’s throne, and govern and control the empire, just as King Edward of England now sits upon the throne of his mother. **We should have this in mind; for we are the sons of God, as much so and more, if possible, than we are the sons of our earthly fathers.
“‘You sisters, I suppose, have read that poem which my sister, Eliza R. Snow Smith, composed, years ago, and which is sung quite frequently now in our meetings [see http://lds.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&searchcollection=1&searchseqstart=292&searchsubseqstart=%20&searchseqend=292&searchsubseqend=ZZZ”] “O My Father,” * Hymns, * no. 292

										]. It tells us that we not only have a Father in “that high  and glorious place.” but that we have a Mother, too; and you sisters  will become as great as your Mother, if you are faithful’” ( 											* 												Improvement Era, 											* 											June 1919, 658).

“Presidents of the Church Student Manual”, lds.org, retrieved May 5, 2010

 

[Answersplease]

Indeed, the idea that God reveals knowledge to prophets and they teach the people is pretty amazing. The idea of revelation itself is pretty amazing–like the greatest of technologies, but on a spiritual level.

Here are some other quotes from the same talk and one that followed:

“… we calculate to give the Elders of Israel their washings and anointings, and attend to those last and more impressive ordinances, without which we cannot obtain Celestial thrones. But there must be a holy place prepared for that purpose…” (p. 362)

Aaron had received the washing and anointing and thus was prepared to act as an administrator and a priest with the Levitical authority. He also had been called to be “voice” for Moses since Moses felt himself to be “slow of speech.”

Answersplease:

In this particular instance, I am not talking about whether or not God speaks through prophets.

The quote from Joseph Smith is an analogy:

Joseph Smith compares himself to God.
And…
Joseph Smith compares Aaron to the Elders who are subordinate to Joseph Smith.

God uses Aaron as God’s “mouth”.

Joseph Smith uses his Elders as Joseph Smith’s “mouth”.

Why?

BECAUSE:

Joseph Smith says, that the god prior to Joseph Smith will make Jospeh Smith a god to you in the prior god’s stead.

utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech15.htm

(Red color added to highlight the original text.)

Joseph Smith himself once boasted: "God

made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me to be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 363; also History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-20).

PS.

Joseph Smith actually messed up the analogy.

Joseph Smith says that Aaron was the mouthpiece for the children nof Israel, that may be true.

But for the analogy to be a proper analogy, Joseph Smith should have said that Aaron was the mouthpiece for God, as in Aaron spoke for God like the Elders spoke for Joseph Smith.

 

[WetCatechumen]

I don’t see a problem with this. Jesus calls us gods, and he says that the Apostles will judge us all at the End of Days. Furthermore, he told his Apostles that, “He who rejects you rejects me.”

He’s expressing the same thing that the church hierarchy expresses. Just because Mormons are heretics doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t give them the benefit of the doubt.

If a Pope had said that, we would just take it to be evidence of Papal Infallibility.

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease:

According to The Holy Bible, the Children of God are grafted into Jesus Christ’s body. Christians are joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

Christians have a share in Jesus Christ’s role as priest, prophet, and king.

BUT Christians will NOT become gods equal to or greater than God Himself.

Why did Jesus Christ have to die? Because a man must pay for a man’s sins.

Why did God have to become flesh? Because only an infinite God/man can pay for the sins of more than one man, let alone the sins of ALL humanity past, present, and future.

The Holy Bible says there is only ONE God.

Joseph Smith says that his supposed god will make Joseph Smith to be god TO YOU and the Elders to be mouth for Joseph Smith, and if you don’t like it you must lump it.

Just think about the words “god TO YOU” for a moment.

Then if you still don’t see problem with that, then I can’t help you.

 

[benidict]

Answersplease:
hi answerplease. i believe that Joseph Smith, was quoting exodus 4:15-16, and applying it to himself. he pretty much said of himself, what God had stated to Moses. i of course do not agree with Joseph Smith. but i dont think he meant this in any blasphemous way. just trying to be fair. Peace

 

[ParkerD]

I don’t see a problem with this. Jesus calls us gods, and he says that the Apostles will judge us all at the End of Days. Furthermore, he told his Apostles that, “He who rejects you rejects me.”

He’s expressing the same thing that the church hierarchy expresses. Just because Mormons are heretics doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t give them the benefit of the doubt.

If a Pope had said that, we would just take it to be evidence of Papal Infallibility.

WetCatechumen,
Thank you for your kindness and compassion here, and for your having read the Bible so that you have been able to discern why Joseph Smith might say such a thing.

 

[ParkerD]

hi answerplease. i believe that Joseph Smith, was quoting exodus 4:15-16, and applying it to himself. he pretty much said of himself, what God had stated to Moses. i of course do not agree with Joseph Smith. but i dont think he meant this in any blasphemous way. just trying to be fair. Peace

Benedict,
Thank you!

 

[benidict]

Benedict,
Thank you!

you are welcom parkerD. i vaugly remembered this from exodus, and the episode with the burning bush. in my primary translation it is not this concise. but in the kjv, nasb, etc it is. i use the douay rheims, but the conotation is still there. i remember in my youth, the song “suicide solution” by ozzy osbourne being held up as a pro suicide song. how wrong they were. it was actually an anti alchohol song. unlike answermethis tho, these guys were bearing false witness. answer me this, does not come with this spirit. that particular verse is not very well known, and so someone else using it, could be misconstrued. i love answermes questions, they are thought provoking, no matter which way they go, and are done in the right spirit. peace to all of us

 

[Answersplease]

hi answerplease. i believe that Joseph Smith, was quoting exodus 4:15-16, and applying it to himself. he pretty much said of himself, what God had stated to Moses. i of course do not agree with Joseph Smith. but i dont think he meant this in any blasphemous way. just trying to be fair. Peace
ParkerD;6613655:

Benedict,
Thank you!

Answersplease:

Exodus 4:14

Then the LORD’s anger burned against Moses and he said, "What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well. He is already on his way to meet you, and his heart will be glad when he sees you.
Exodus 4:15
You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Exodus 4:16
He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him.

The words “as if” make A LOT OF DIFFERENCE.

For example:
He ate the hamburger. (The hamburger is consumed.)
AS IF he ate the hamburger. (The hamburger is NOT consumed.)

Joseph Smith plainly said his god would make Joseph Smith be god TO YOU.

The words "“as if” are NOT in Joseph Smith’s sentence.

The Old Testament verse Exodus 4:16 says:
…as if you were God to him…

Satan is the author of confusion.

 

[benidict]

Answersplease:
thank you for the additional translation answerplease. i have only one at my disposal currently, so i am not exactly sure how some of the others read. Peace

 

[evanfaust]

Joseph Smith himself once boasted: “God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me to be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 363; also History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-20).

Maybe Joseph was thinking of this scripture too…

“And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” Ex 7:1

 

[Michael_Francis]

Question answered: Thread closed.