Joseph Smith & L. Ron Hubbard: Similarities?

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No doubt this will antagonize the LDS visitors to this Web site, but it is not my intention to openly alienate them; however, I envision Joseph Smith as the 19th century version of L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Both seem to concentrate on the “self” more than God. For example, in the LDS, the nature of God is that God was once mortal man before attaining His current status, which means there were other gods before Him (called “eternal progression”). In Scientology, people seek solutions through technology rather than faith. In both instances, Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard seemingly play a larger role in their “religions” than God; that Smith and Hubbard are more messiah than Jesus. I am curious if I am way off base on this comparison. Naturally, I suspect some pointed comments, but the faith exhibited by members in LDS and Scientology are both adamantly against and unresponsive to other religious and theological perspectives, and I understand Scientology is particularly litigious when confronted by those who would speak against it.
 
I think there are similarities. Especially if you add in Brigham young’s teachings with Joseph Smith. They believed that we came here from another planet. Our God lives somewhere else. (near Kolob) Elron taught similar things. They both taught a tightly controlled “utopian” society that is persecuted by the unbeleivers. They both a taught a progression whereby if you are faithful (which in both cases results in you giving a lot of money and labor to the church) you can reach your “full potential” of becoming a “divine” being. Both wrote colorful science fiction. Both are very careful in what they allow potentail members to learn and both have sued to keep their manuals unpublished.
 
And both wrote good science fiction:

Scientology: Xenu dropped hydrogen bombs on certain named volcanos on earth 75 million years ago that geology tells us didn’t exist on earth yet…

AND

Book of Mormon: Elephants (and other creatures, etc) roamed the American countryside around 2500 B.C. or so when all the fossil evidence says they didn’t exist in America at that time. All but 2 species (Asian and African) went extinct. The Wooly Mammoth (technically not an “elephant”) went extinct about 10,000 B.C., but Joseph Smith didn’t know that.

From UTLM of the Tanners: The Book of Mormon mentions wheat (Mosiah 9:9), horses (1 Nephi 18:25), chariots (Alma 18:9-11; 20:6; 3 Nephi 3:22), cows (Enos 21), elephants (Ether 9:19), silk (Alma 1:29; 4:6; Ether 9:17), linen (Mosiah 10:5; Helamon 6:13; Ether 10:24), money-pieces of gold and silver (Alma 11:3-20), steel (2 Nephi 5:15; Jarom 1:8; Ether 7:9). None of these items were here before the Spaniards.

Phil P
 
Hmmm…maybe Xenu was a mormon on another world who had progressed to godhood and was just ruling his planet his way.
 
cest << …maybe Xenu was a mormon on another world >>

Um hee hee. 😃 That is one thing Mormons and Scientology people have in common, they take the rest of the universe (other planets, etc) into consideration in their “theology.” Christianity is boring since we only involve earth, and we all used to be geocentrists in the old days. :ehh:

Speaking of which, have you seen the Xenu Babies?

And here’s a report on the Xenu Babies

Phil P
 
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jim1130:
No doubt this will antagonize the LDS visitors to this Web site, but it is not my intention to openly alienate them; however, I envision Joseph Smith as the 19th century version of L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Both seem to concentrate on the “self” more than God. For example, in the LDS, the nature of God is that God was once mortal man before attaining His current status, which means there were other gods before Him (called “eternal progression”). In Scientology, people seek solutions through technology rather than faith. In both instances, Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard seemingly play a larger role in their “religions” than God; that Smith and Hubbard are more messiah than Jesus. I am curious if I am way off base on this comparison. Naturally, I suspect some pointed comments, but the faith exhibited by members in LDS and Scientology are both adamantly against and unresponsive to other religious and theological perspectives, and I understand Scientology is particularly litigious when confronted by those who would speak against it.
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Just a little trivia:

L. Ron Hubbard was close freinds with Aleister Crowley, the father of modern satanism.
 
lets have a little laugh then about some of your early teachings should we. or is it only ok to mock other peoples beliefs.
lets talk about the earth being the entre of the universe and lets burn anybody who argues. in fact lets burn anybody who thinks diffrent to you. only cast stones if you are clean of sin first. during your churchs long history there have been many things done in your name that makes all other churchs look very innocent.
 
Chris LaRock,

“L. Ron Hubbard was close freinds with Aleister Crowley, the father of modern satanism”.

I know a little about both Crowley and Hubbard, but I didn’t know this. Can you say where you learned it, or give more details?

GKC
 
paul barlow:
lets have a little laugh then about some of your early teachings should we. or is it only ok to mock other peoples beliefs.
lets talk about the earth being the entre of the universe and lets burn anybody who argues. in fact lets burn anybody who thinks diffrent to you. only cast stones if you are clean of sin first. during your churchs long history there have been many things done in your name that makes all other churchs look very innocent.
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We can handle the truth and do not deny history, but you cannot handle the truth. Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard are false profits/prophets (hmmm, interesting).

From The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott:

Page 7 - “The clear teaching of Holy Writ and Tradition is that after Christ, and the Apostles who proclaimed the message of Christ, no further Revelation will be made. Christ was the fulfillment of the Law of the Old Testament (Matthew 5, 17; 5, 21) and the absolute teacher of humanity (Matthew 23, 10). The Apostles saw in Christ: “The coming of the fullness of time” (Galatians, 4, 4) and regarded as their task the preservation, integral and unfalsified, of the heritage of the Faith entrusted to them by Christ (1 Timothy 6, 14; 6, 20; 2 Timothy 1, 14; 2, 2; 3, 14). The Fathers indignantly repudiated the claim of the heretics to possess secret doctrines or new Revelations of the Holy Ghost.”

Page 31 - “The Fathers called God infinite, boundless, uncircumscribed. According to St. Gregory of Nyssa, God is ‘in every way without limit.’ As He is ‘according to His nature boundless.’ He cannot be comprehended in a human concept. As God does not originate from another Being, and as He is in no wise composed of parts, there exists in him no basis for a limitation of His Being.”

Page 32 - “It is a basic doctrine of the Old Testament and of the New Testament Revelation that there is only one God. Deuteronomy 6, 4 (Mark 12, 29).”

God always was; there was no god before God.
 
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GKC:
Chris LaRock,

“L. Ron Hubbard was close freinds with Aleister Crowley, the father of modern satanism”.

I know a little about both Crowley and Hubbard, but I didn’t know this. Can you say where you learned it, or give more details?

GKC
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I saw it on the documentary ‘they sold their souls for rock and roll’. They played audio of L. Ron Hubbard speaking about his ‘good freind Aleister Crowly’, and even going on to say that Crowley called himself ‘the beast’, and ‘666’.

I’m sure a search of the web will uncover a copy of this audio recording.
 
Chris LaRock:
I saw it on the documentary ‘they sold their souls for rock and roll’. They played audio of L. Ron Hubbard speaking about his ‘good freind Aleister Crowly’, and even going on to say that Crowley called himself ‘the beast’, and ‘666’.

I’m sure a search of the web will uncover a copy of this audio recording.
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Thank you. It is good to learn things. I’ll look around a little.

GKC
 
paul barlow:
lets have a little laugh then about some of your early teachings should we. or is it only ok to mock other peoples beliefs.
lets talk about the earth being the entre of the universe and lets burn anybody who argues. in fact lets burn anybody who thinks diffrent to you. only cast stones if you are clean of sin first. during your churchs long history there have been many things done in your name that makes all other churchs look very innocent.
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I’m not Catholic, so this little rant about the history of the Catholic church has no bearing on me whatsoever. The fact still remains that Crowley’s satanism has had an influence over the founder of the Church of Scientology. This is just something you’re going to have to accept, because it is documented.

I’m sorry the truth offends you.
 
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GKC:
Thank you. It is good to learn things. I’ll look around a little.

GKC
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It was creepy! The documentory was talking about how wide an influence Crowley’s occultism had on culture when they played that audio.
 
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GKC:
Chris LaRock,

“L. Ron Hubbard was close freinds with Aleister Crowley, the father of modern satanism”.

I know a little about both Crowley and Hubbard, but I didn’t know this. Can you say where you learned it, or give more details?

GKC
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This is downright SCARY! And it makes me want to boycott any movie with Tom Cruise, John Travolta, and Anne Archer in it. Did I forget any other Scientology celebrities?
 
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majick275:
Greta van susteren, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, Jason Lee, Katie Holmes (newly), Jerry seinfeld (formerly), Chick Corea,Lindsey Bartleson, It goes on… here is the list from wiki (like all wiki articles read with a grain of salt):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists
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I am SICK and SCARED! How can these people be duped? I loved the Steve Martin movie “Bowfinger” and its not-so-sublte jabs at Scientology.
 
Don’t just take my word for it. I’m sure the audio clip can be found somewhere on the web. I’m sure you can easily locate it and hear for yourself.
 
As a Scientologist, I’d like the opportunity to correct some misinformation about the religion.

“Both seem to concentrate on the “self” more than God. In Scientology, people seek solutions through technology rather than faith.”

This is partially true. Scientology has no dogma concerning what or who God is. Rather, Scientology is a precise system allowing the individual to discover such answers on his own. One of the fundamental concepts of Scientology is that the person is best off when he is fully self-aware and self-determined. Where other efforts to help man have focused on giving him answers, Scientology focuses on helping the individual to find his own answers to life’s questions.
 
In both instances, Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard seemingly play a larger role in their “religions” than God; that Smith and Hubbard are more messiah than Jesus.
I can’t speak towards Joseph Smith, but L. Ron Hubbard is NOT considered a messiah. He never claimed to be anything other than a man, and he is accepted as such by all Scientologists.
 
“…the faith exhibited by members in LDS and Scientology are both adamantly against and unresponsive to other religious and theological perspectives…”
This is patently false. I don’t think you will find a religion more open to other religious beliefs than Scientology. In fact, many Scientologists also belong to another faith. The head of our local Church is also Christian. We had one staff mamber who was also a practicing Jew and another who was raised Quaker. While not all Scientologists also practice another faith, it is not that uncommon. Below is a post from the Scientology FAQ.

"Scientology respects all religions. It shares with other religions the dreams of peace and salvation.
Code: 
The Church’s Creed states that “all men have inalienable rights to their own religious practices and their performance.”

Scientology ministers-in-training study all the major religions of the world to better understand how they fit into the larger religious community."
 
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