"Josephan" Marriage

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Sorry, Admin, can you please move this where it might belong? I couldn’t find any place to start a new thread and I thought I was posting this in Catholic Living… Thank you!

Hello, I have an embarrassing predicament that I can’t ask anyone about…when I have asked the clergy or tried to find out on my own, I get opposing answers.

I have been married for 19 years, my spouse and I have NEVER consummated our marriage. First it was due to spouse’s physical/medical problems, now we are age 60 & 68 and just are comfy how it is. We got married by Justice of Peace. Spouse is not Catholic, I however am born, raised and practicing Catholic, becoming more and more devoted to God all the time and have a busy prayer life with which I can only ask God, “please give me more”.

My fear is that my “outside the Church” marriage would prevent me from receiving Holy Communion at Mass. I have heard inter-faith couples can have their marriage blessed in the Church and then the Catholic spouse can receive Holy Communion and be a member in good standing with the Church.

When I asked a priest about this some five years ago, if I understood him correctly, he told me that we have a “Josephan marriage” (like Mary and Joseph did) and that its okay to receive Holy Communion…also since our marriage is not valid in the eyes of the LAW because it’s not consummated, in the eyes of the Church, I am unmarried and therefore can receive Communion.

Any answers? I truly would be devastated if I could no longer receive the Eucharist! However, I know that receiving unworthily would be worse.

I’m afraid of the answers, but I feel it’s finally time to get my head out of the sand and find out for sure. Thank you in advance!
 
Your priest sounds about right.

It is consummation that makes the marriage.

The word however, might be Josephite rather than “Josephan”.

ICXC NIKA.
 
Make an appointment to meet with your pastor. An appointment so you know you have uninterrupted time, don’t just catch him after Mass for a minute. Together you can figure out whether things are OK as they stand or if you need to have your marriage convalidated or get a radical sanation. He’ll be able to help you move on to the next step.
 
I cannot speak to the OP’s predicament with any authority, but in speculation:
You are not in an objective and habitual state of fornication (which is typically what would prevent one in an irregular union from approaching the sacraments), it is likely that you may be admitted to the sacraments.

Speak to your pastor about it to be sure.

HOWEVER:
GEddie said:
It is consummation that makes the marriage.
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:nope: This is not the teaching of the Church.

tee
Not A Canon Lawyer
 
CatechistBuff said:
Sorry, Admin, can you please move this where it might belong? I couldn’t find any place to start a new thread and I thought I was posting this in Catholic Living… Thank you!

Hello, I have an embarrassing predicament that I can’t ask anyone about…when I have asked the clergy or tried to find out on my own, I get opposing answers.

I have been married for 19 years, my spouse and I have NEVER consummated our marriage. First it was due to spouse’s physical/medical problems, now we are age 60 & 68 and just are comfy how it is. We got married by Justice of Peace. Spouse is not Catholic, I however am born, raised and practicing Catholic, becoming more and more devoted to God all the time and have a busy prayer life with which I can only ask God, “please give me more”.

My fear is that my “outside the Church” marriage would prevent me from receiving Holy Communion at Mass. I have heard inter-faith couples can have their marriage blessed in the Church and then the Catholic spouse can receive Holy Communion and be a member in good standing with the Church.

When I asked a priest about this some five years ago, if I understood him correctly, he told me that we have a “Josephan marriage” (like Mary and Joseph did) and that its okay to receive Holy Communion…also since our marriage is not valid in the eyes of the LAW because it’s not consummated, in the eyes of the Church, I am unmarried and therefore can receive Communion.

Any answers? I truly would be devastated if I could no longer receive the Eucharist! However, I know that receiving unworthily would be worse.

I’m afraid of the answers, but I feel it’s finally time to get my head out of the sand and find out for sure. Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...
The people you would want to speak with would be in the Marriage Tribunal at the Catholic Center downtown; they would be experienced in this sort of matter (as they usually deal with annulments, but they would be able to help you I would imagine as well). If they tell you to ask your pastor, tell them what you’ve told us (that you’ve been getting conflicting reports). Their number is: (716) 847-8769, or email at tribunal@buffalodiocese.org.

For more information, please visit their website here.

Merry Christmas,
Seminarian
Diocese of Buffalo
 
Why was it not consummated? Was it physical impairment on his part or your part?
A valid marriage should be open to life and should be consummated.
 
tee_eff_em said:
I cannot speak to the OP’s predicament with any authority, but in speculation:
You are not in an objective and habitual state of fornication (which is typically what would prevent one in an irregular union from approaching the sacraments), it is likely that you may be admitted to the sacraments.

Speak to your pastor about it to be sure.

HOWEVER:

:nope: This is not the teaching of the Church.

tee
Not A Canon Lawyer
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It is what makes a marriage Valid…a non consummated marriage can be dissolved or annulled.
 
Mayita30 said:
Why was it not consummated? Was it physical impairment on his part or your part?
A valid marriage should be open to life and should be consummated.
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The OP gave a reason in the first post. Why do we need to know which one may have experieced any impairment?

It’s still possible for a Josephite marriage to be open to life.

ETA: Also note that the OP is not validly married (due lack of form, I think) so it was best that they have not had sex.
 
Mayita30 said:
It is what makes a marriage Valid…a non consummated marriage can be dissolved or annulled.
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tee_eff_em is correct. A marriage does not need to be consummated in order to be valid.

You are correct that an unconsummated marriage may be dissolved but can’t be annulled.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
tee_eff_em is correct. A marriage does not need to be consummated in order to be valid.

You are correct that an unconsummated marriage may be dissolved but in can’t be annulled because it is valid.
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It can still be annulled because a psychiatrically or pyschologicaly saned person would consummate a marriage. A non consummated marriage means there is deception going on when the vows where said…Impotency is a grounds for annullment…

I am speaking from first hand experince. I have had a non consummated marriage annulled. To dissolve or annull a marriage is just similar. The only difference is that to dissolve it you would have to send your documents to Rome while to annul it, you can have the process in your local tribunal but it would still undergo the first and second instance. To prove non-consummation of marriage, the tribunal has to send you to their authorized doctor …
 
If the Op was not married in the catholic church, she would still have to get an annulment (lack of form) if she want to get married in the catholic Church
 
I re-read what the OP wrote, I think what she needs is for her marriage to be convalidated not annulled.
 
Mayita30 said:
It can still be annulled because a psychiatrically or pyschologicaly saned person would consummate a marriage. A non consummated marriage means there is deception going on when the vows where said…Impotency is a grounds for annullment…

I am speaking from first hand experince. I have had a non consummated marriage annulled. To dissolve or annull a marriage is just similar. The only difference is that to dissolve it you would have to send your documents to Rome while to annul it, you can have the process in your local tribunal but it would still undergo the first and second instance. To prove non-consummation of marriage, the tribunal has to send you to their authorized doctor …
Click to expand...
It isn’t that simple.

Can.* 1084 §1. Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.

§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.

A Josephite marriage is a marriage on which both parties agree not to engage in the marital act. However, they must be able to and should one spouse desire to consummate the marriage the other must agree.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
It isn’t that simple.

Can.* 1084 §1. Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.

§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.
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what is not simple?
 
OP, just schedule a meeting with the parish priest. He will answer all your questions. As I read through this thread, I think you probably (by now) have quite the headache.
Just call. Don’t be afraid to tell him all the details. This is the only way you’re going to get an answer that is specific to your situation, since we don’t know everything, nor should we. God bless. I pray that everything works out the way you hope. There is a very good canon lawyer on the forum, but I see he has not weighed in yet.
Peace.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Basically that any unconsummated marriage is invalid or that impotency is grounds for annulment. Refer to the quotes from Canon law.
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I don’t know what your point is…but that is what the priest told me. A marriage has to be consummated. Impotent men in some cases (well in my case) are psychiatrically ill therefore they are unable to consummate a marriage.

If the marriage was consummated and then one of the spouse became impotent then the marriage is still valid because the marriage was already consummated
 
Mayita30 said:
It can still be annulled because a psychiatrically or pyschologicaly saned person would consummate a marriage. A non consummated marriage means there is deception going on when the vows where said…Impotency is a grounds for annullment…
Click to expand...
Can. 1061 §1. A
Code: 
valid marriage between the baptized
is called ratum tantum if it has not been consummated; it is called ratum et consummatum if the spouses have performed between themselves in a human fashion a conjugal act which is suitable in itself for the procreation of offspring, to which marriage is ordered by its nature and by which the spouses become one flesh.
§2. After a marriage has been celebrated, if the spouses have lived together consummation is presumed until the contrary is proven.
§3. An invalid marriage is called putative if at least one party celebrated it in good faith, until both parties become certain of its nullity.

Can. 1142 For a just cause, the Roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.
Mayita30 said:
I am speaking from first hand experince. I have had a non consummated marriage annulled. To dissolve or annull a marriage is just similar. The only difference is that to dissolve it you would have to send your documents to Rome while to annul it, you can have the process in your local tribunal but it would still undergo the first and second instance. To prove non-consummation of marriage, the tribunal has to send you to their authorized doctor …
Click to expand...
I would not ask you to reveal intimate details about your marital history here, but perhaps your marriage was both unconsummated, but found null for some legitimate ground (either perpetual and antecedent impotence or some other ground)? 🤷 :twocents:

By my understanding, the Church’s teaching is that (unimpeded) consent makes a valid marriage; consummation makes a (already valid) marriage indissoluble.

tee
Not A Canon Lawyer
 
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