Josephite Marriage a good idea?

[DL82]

I would appreciate advice from anyone, Catholic or not, who has tried this, or who has experienced similar difficulties.

It has become clear in recent months, fairly early in our marriage, that my beloved wife and I both have some serious sexual issues in our past to work through. Hers are the result of violence against her, while mine are the result of self-abuse, so I feel doubly guilty about all of this. Intimacy leads to feelings of fear and objectification.

There are serious reasons for avoiding a pregnancy right now, and probably will be for most of our remaining fertile years (please don’t ask for details, just trust me). So we are learning/using the Creighton method very conservatively right now, which makes my wife uncomfortable. Even talking about future intimacy leads to all the problems I outlined above, and it is likely my wife will need to go on the Pill for a few months because of medical problems, which makes me feel uncomfortable.

So I suggested that we take an extended break from intimacy until we can work through our issues, perhaps a year or two. My wife seems genuinely not to mind one way or another, but I know this is not something I want to shoulder the burden of alone. Would really appreciate the advice of anyone here in a marriage that is sexless by consent. How do you do it? Is it a good idea? Would you recommend it for healing?

PS: anyone whose only contribution is ‘see a counselor’, we already are, anyone whose only contribution is ‘get an annulment’, please keep your opinion to yourself.

 

[Pomme]

My guess is you can try it for a certain period of time while being very open and honest with each other+change your mind when/if it doesn’t work out.I believe it would take some pressure off.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I would talk to your priest and make sure you have good spiritual direction. This may be a relief to you in some ways, but it does remove one aspect of unity between the two of you. I would proceed with extreme caution and a lot of direction from a priest or other spiritual director.

If both of you are dealing with sexual issues, you may need to see separate counselors.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I would appreciate advice from anyone, Catholic or not, who has tried this, or who has experienced similar difficulties.

It has become clear in recent months, fairly early in our marriage, that my beloved wife and I both have some serious sexual issues in our past to work through. Hers are the result of violence against her, while mine are the result of self-abuse, so I feel doubly guilty about all of this. Intimacy leads to feelings of fear and objectification.

There are serious reasons for avoiding a pregnancy right now, and probably will be for most of our remaining fertile years (please don’t ask for details, just trust me). So we are learning/using the Creighton method very conservatively right now, which makes my wife uncomfortable. Even talking about future intimacy leads to all the problems I outlined above, and it is likely my wife will need to go on the Pill for a few months because of medical problems, which makes me feel uncomfortable.

So I suggested that we take an extended break from intimacy until we can work through our issues, perhaps a year or two. My wife seems genuinely not to mind one way or another, but I know this is not something I want to shoulder the burden of alone. Would really appreciate the advice of anyone here in a marriage that is sexless by consent. How do you do it? Is it a good idea? Would you recommend it for healing?

PS: anyone whose only contribution is ‘see a counselor’, we already are, anyone whose only contribution is ‘get an annulment’, please keep your opinion to yourself.

I would add: “Anyone saying take 1/2 years out, please stay away!”
You pray together, you live together, you suffer together, you love together. Breaking the ship apart will lead you both nowhere.
Grind your teeth and keep together, no matter what.
Everybody had got problems.
Once John Denver said in a TV interview: “My grandfather used to say: “if you think that you are in the bottom of the well…just look down””
There is always someone worse off than us.
I met in the net a lady, a brazilian lady whose motto was: My God is the God of the impossible things". We are friends for 10 years, we rarely speak but this motto kept winding in my mind.
Demand the impossible from God for the possible things are for man.
If your wife needs the Pill for medical reasons, it seems there is no problem. Do not make it a problem.
Stand by God and God will stand by you.
Remember the past does not exist neither the future. Do not live on them, not on your sexual bad experiences in the past for they are gone neither on what the future may bring in the future for you do not know. The future belongs to God and He does not reveal to no one.
You have got only the present that fine sliding point sliding from a past that does not exist to a future that does not exist either.
Live the present. The Present if God.

 

[Castello]

Only a good priest and spiritual director can help you make that decision.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I would appreciate advice from anyone, Catholic or not, who has tried this, or who has experienced similar difficulties…

It sounds to me like you are considering this out of love for one another and preservation of your marriage. I won’t suggest counselling but I will suggest, if you can find such a thing: competent spiritual direction. My concern is that without any physical sexual outlet, you may be tempted to old ways. Only you know. As someone who shares a history with your wife, if this starts very early, there is no cure unless God directly intervenes. If it happened later, after adolescence, possibly there will be a therapeutic solution.

Generally, I admire your position. I think that if you pursue this approach, it’s important to work at loving one another in active ways and maintaining or achieving intimacy of heart and spirit, and not become two people living separate lives in the same domicile.

God bless you both abundantly.

 

[Joe_5859]

I would talk to your priest and make sure you have good spiritual direction. This may be a relief to you in some ways, but it does remove one aspect of unity between the two of you. I would proceed with extreme caution and a lot of direction from a priest or other spiritual director.

If both of you are dealing with sexual issues, you may need to see separate counselors.

I second this advice. A spiritual director’s direction is going to be invaluable in making such an exercise fruitful.

I will say that I wouldn’t think it is necessary to make a committment to abstaining for so long a time frame. I would think it would be better to try it for a shorter time frame and then reevaluate it. Saying that you’re going to abstain for the next two years could turn into “We don’t have to talk about it or even think about it for the next two years”, which could potentially fall into the “if-I-ignore-it-it-will-go-away” school of problem solving, which seldom works. I would think it would be better to say “one month” and intentionally take it to prayer every day during that time. Then, after a month, you can have the conversation again and see what progress has been made and if you want to keep going for another month.

Short answer: take it a month at a time, not a year at a time; and do so in consultation with a spiritual director.

 

[trinichiqn]

I think these points will help you get through regardless of what you decide:

• Never meet without an affectionate welcome. Hold hands, a hug, a kiss, a special touch (like your hand against her cheek). It is important to keep intimacy with each other alive in your marriage and these and maybe you can find others that can work for you.
• Tell each other you love each other at least once a day. Say something complimentary also.
• Pray together at least once a day. Even if all you say is Grace before and after meals make it a point to come together in prayer.
• Listen when your spouse is speaking. You both will experience this differently, don’t tell yourself what she is saying or has to say, actually listen each time she has something to say there just might be a little insight that you never picked up before.
• Learn to forgive. We are all sinners and fall short, as long as we are breathing we are going to do something that offends.
• Don’t bring up past mistakes. If it is forgiven, if it is dealt with then it is in the past, don’t keep bringing it into the future. As a note make sure it is dealt with and truly forgiven so that it can be put into the past.
• Don’t use faith, the Bible or God as a hammer. Jesus did not come to condemn the world (John 3:17) so don’t use Him to get your own way or make your wife feel bad. I’m not saying to keep God or your faith out of your interactions but rather use it judiciously, correctly and wisely.
• Keep Christ in the center of your home, life and marriage.
• Decide that divorce is not an option and act accordingly.

As others have said, good spiritual direction is needed. Remember you are 100% responsible for 50% of your marriage.

 

[ValPal]

Regarding the Josephite Marriage, you can’t have one if you already had sex with your spouse. You can certainly abstain if you and your spouse agree too, even forever is necessary, but it would be improper to refer to this situation as a Josephite marriage.

 

[Rita77]

Only a good priest and spiritual director can help you make that decision.

I agree with Castello and I’ll add that how well or not you handled abstinence/ sexual temptation before marriage may be about the same. every marriage is different but in my marriage long periods of abstinence 6+ months leads to a lots of frustration… if your wife is finding it hard to trust the Creighton method she may want to try stm the bbt temps really help reassure post peak phase (phase 3).

 

[DL82]

I agree with Castello and I’ll add that how well or not you handled abstinence/ sexual temptation before marriage may be about the same. every marriage is different but in my marriage long periods of abstinence 6+ months leads to a lots of frustration… if your wife is finding it hard to trust the Creighton method she may want to try stm the bbt temps really help reassure post peak phase (phase 3).

I was more or less fine at handling temptation before my marriage. Going without sex was fine, it was the thought of being alone and never having children that made me feel a need to marry. I was in a state of grace on my wedding night, and haven’t been certain that I have been in a state of grace at any time since, largely because of sexual temptation. It is hard for me to be sexually active and remain in control.

We have tried ATM, we learned Creighton because we didn’t trust it. My wife was able to cope in the Church (just) before we met and before we married, but being sexually active has caused her so much hurt and agitation that she has left the church entirely (I don’t want to go into detail as to why or how these things are connected).

If it comes to the choice between fulfilling my sexual desires and helping my wife to feel comfortable with her life again, I will gladly go unfulfilled.

 

[joanofarc2008]

May I suggest that while I understand and hear what you are saying that you at least go through charting together - and I mean together so that maybe the intimacy of being in rhythm with her body and fertile periods may help. That way should you make a decision to resume relations at any point you will also know when it is safe to do so since you have already discerned that you have grave reasons for waiting for children at this time. God bless and good luck.

 

[GraceDK]

I was more or less fine at handling temptation before my marriage. Going without sex was fine, it was the thought of being alone and never having children that made me feel a need to marry. I was in a state of grace on my wedding night, and haven’t been certain that I have been in a state of grace at any time since, largely because of sexual temptation. It is hard for me to be sexually active and remain in control.

We have tried ATM, we learned Creighton because we didn’t trust it. My wife was able to cope in the Church (just) before we met and before we married, but being sexually active has caused her so much hurt and agitation that she has left the church entirely (I don’t want to go into detail as to why or how these things are connected).

If it comes to the choice between fulfilling my sexual desires and helping my wife to feel comfortable with her life again, I will gladly go unfulfilled.

Hey DL82.

I’m sorry to hear you got problems. I know how long you were hoping and waiting for the right lady to marry.
From your post it seems like you don’t feel in control of your own sexuality.
That may well cause an already traumatized woman to feel very uncomfortable about sex. A normal woman needs to feel safe and respected in order to feel sexual pleasure.

I guess my advice would be to speak to a Christian couples-psychologist, both seperately and together.
I do think you need this kind of help to overcome your problems.
Overspiritualizing or just accepting a sexless marriage, I don’t think its a good idea.
Don’t give up!

I too have been hurt in the past. I think the only thing that can really heal is love and respect. I can’t tell you how much it already healed me to date a man where I was sure he loved me, found me interesting as a person, and didn’t wanna have sex with me illicitly, although clearly longing for union with me.
If you give up on this special union with each other, I am pretty sure both of you might soon start feeling “not good enough” and “not worth fighting for”.

These are just my two cents.

 

[mini_me640]

I agree with GraceDK and would like to add that Josephite marriage is a spiritual calling, not an escape from our sexual problems. It is only a good idea for those very few who are called to it. For most couples, a sexless marriage is not healthy and can cause problems.

 

[LongingForLight]

I would talk to your priest and make sure you have good spiritual direction. This may be a relief to you in some ways, but it does remove one aspect of unity between the two of you. I would proceed with extreme caution and a lot of direction from a priest or other spiritual director.

If both of you are dealing with sexual issues, you may need to see separate counselors.

This.

There’s a couple whom I am closely related to who have shared the details of their marriage with me, and they did take such a break at one point (but not permanently!). I do believe it helped.

My husband and I also unintentionally took such a break during the last 6 months of a year of breastfeeding infertility with mixed fertility signals, as part of NFP. While we didn’t do it for therapeutic reasons, I do think it helped resolve some sexual issues brought into the marriage.

I also agree with charting NFP signs together, and doing other intimate activities. This might also be a good time to pick up a copy of “The Five Love Languages” and try to figure out how each of you likes to give and receive love. Charting was a good way to send the message to each other that “this isn’t permanent, I still want to be with you sexually some day when it’s good for both of us”, plus it helped us stay confident in using NFP (plus, it was really nice to get 2 weeks warning before my first period and keep in touch with what my body was doing). We had a built-in intimate activity that made the abstinence fly by, too - caring for infant twins - and I do think that had a lot to do with how easy the abstinence was for us.