Joshua 10:40

[D_Martin]

Hi All
I am struggling with the old testament “genocides”.
Joshua 10:40 - “So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.”
In Joshua the Israelites utterly destroy every living thing of
people of Ai
the Gibeonites
people of Makkedah
the Libnahites
the people of Lachish
the Egonlites
the Hebronites
the Debieites
the people of Anikim

How is this Christian?

And the virgin Midianites of Numbers 31. The Israelites killing woman and children, and taking the virgin females as captives.

It just seems so evil, even if accept this is not real history and just a story.

I dont know how to reconcile this with the God of love of the new testament?

I believe in God and want to continue to be a Christian, but this is a major stumbling block for me.

Help please.

Well, for one, the things of God and what God does isn’t supposed to be reconciled unto you, you are supposed to be reconciled unto God. Scripture isn’t a stumbling block, preconceived notions and incorrect theology are usually the stumbling blocks.

Jesus came in God’s Peace to mankind before Jesus returns and rules with an iron fist. And note the same happened here in Joshua. I do believe some one has already mentioned that one of the societies came to get a peace agreement from Joshua, but nobody else did. You must remember that there was forty years of news coming from Egypt and the desert between Egypt and what is now Israel that a people with their God who is mighty and made the Pharaoh the rule of the most powerful nation back then, submit to their wishes. And was destroying those who would stand in their way. Those societies could have packed their stuff and moved, or stayed and fought, or requested peace. They stayed and fought, and it didn’t go well for them.

 

[mikekle]

Hi All

I am struggling with the old testament “genocides”.

Joshua 10:40 - “So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.”

In Joshua the Israelites utterly destroy every living thing of

people of Ai
the Gibeonites
people of Makkedah
the Libnahites
the people of Lachish
the Egonlites
the Hebronites
the Debieites
the people of Anikim

How is this Christian?

And the virgin Midianites of Numbers 31. The Israelites killing woman and children, and taking the virgin females as captives.

It just seems so evil, even if accept this is not real history and just a story.

I dont know how to reconcile this with the God of love of the new testament?

I believe in God and want to continue to be a Christian, but this is a major stumbling block for me.

Help please.

I struggle with these kinds of verses too, what I truly do not understand though, it is stated many times in the bible how God has always been the same, and will always be the same and can never change his nature, so by these verses, it is pretty clear what that nature is, so it is confusing, Plus the verse that tells people that if they come upon a city where just one person is a blasphemer, that ENTIRE city is to be killed off!!!?? what kind of logic is that?

If you notice, this is something that is not discussed in mass, or in catholic schools either I had to look these verses up on my own, as I never heard them spoken of at school, or mass. I wonder why that is? What if this is truly what God intends people to do in modern times? I cannot see ANY parish instructing its members to go out on killing rampages, but if God commands it, then it becomes an issue of mankind trying to twist what God wants and means JUST so church members will not face prison, but, again, if this is truly what God wants, mans laws should not matter to the devout and should not even be considered.

I get a headache thinking about this issue LOL

What is comes down to IMO, if this violence was Gods nature at one time, then it is Gods nature NOW, as he does not and cannot change, I guess its best to keep this in mind if nothing else…??

 

[Augustine3]

Hi All

I am struggling with the old testament “genocides”.

Joshua 10:40 - “So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.”

In Joshua the Israelites utterly destroy every living thing of

people of Ai
the Gibeonites
people of Makkedah
the Libnahites
the people of Lachish
the Egonlites
the Hebronites
the Debieites
the people of Anikim

How is this Christian?

And the virgin Midianites of Numbers 31. The Israelites killing woman and children, and taking the virgin females as captives.

It just seems so evil, even if accept this is not real history and just a story.

I dont know how to reconcile this with the God of love of the new testament?

I believe in God and want to continue to be a Christian, but this is a major stumbling block for me.

Help please.

Why is it easier (at least for most people) to accept God’s judgement upon those to spend an eternity in hell than to accept God’s judgement of genocide against the sinful gentiles?

We should keep in mind genocide was not part of God’s original plan "My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out… "I will send hornets ahead of you so that they will drive out the Hivites, the Canaanites, and the Hittites before you.” – Exodus 23, 28:23. Just as God sent the ten plagues to Egypt while the Israelites sat back and did nothing so to was supposed to happen in the same way against the gentiles living in Canaan. Unfortunately it wasn’t that simple due to the lack of fidelity shown by the Israelites. For God to send hornets ahead of the Israelites would not be enough because the gentiles would come back again after the plaque and the Israelites would have typically adopted their foreign practices rather be what they were supposed to be – a light of revelation to the gentiles to draw them closer to God. Because the Israelites failed to save the gentiles who were living in sin through their holiness, God used the Israelites as an instrument of judgement against them. This emphasises the point we are all our brothers and sisters keepers. No one goes to heaven alone and no one goes to hell alone.

I think this passage sums it up quite well “After the LORD, your God, has thrust them out of your way, do not say to yourselves, ‘It is because of my merits that the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; for it is really because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out before you. No, it is not because of your merits or the integrity of your heart that you are going in to take possession of their land; but the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out before you on account of their wickedness and in order to keep the promise which he made on oath to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Understand this, therefore: it is not because of your merits that the LORD, your God, is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.” – Deuteronomy 9:4-6

 

[Barbara_Ann_Bau]

When we reached the passage in our Bible Study Class my mind immediately said Hiroshima. Many innocent people were killed there. Then my mind went to Viet Nam many innocent people were killed there. Today innocent people are being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. I think what we are looking at here is the concept of a just war. I have not at this time found the proper references in the CCC but I am searching. Anyone have any thoughts on this

 

[Augustine3]

When we reached the passage in our Bible Study Class my mind immediately said Hiroshima. Many innocent people were killed there. Then my mind went to Viet Nam many innocent people were killed there. Today innocent people are being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. I think what we are looking at here is the concept of a just war. I have not at this time found the proper references in the CCC but I am searching. Anyone have any thoughts on this

Did my post make sense?

Why is it easier (at least for most people) to accept God’s judgement upon those to spend an eternity in hell than to accept God’s judgement of genocide against the sinful gentiles?

We should keep in mind genocide was not part of God’s original plan "My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out… "I will send hornets ahead of you so that they will drive out the Hivites, the Canaanites, and the Hittites before you.” – Exodus 23, 28:23. Just as God sent the ten plagues to Egypt while the Israelites sat back and did nothing so to was supposed to happen in the same way against the gentiles living in Canaan. Unfortunately it wasn’t that simple due to the lack of fidelity shown by the Israelites. For God to send hornets ahead of the Israelites would not be enough because the gentiles would come back again after the plaque and the Israelites would have typically adopted their foreign practices rather be what they were supposed to be – a light of revelation to the gentiles to draw them closer to God. Because the Israelites failed to save the gentiles who were living in sin through their holiness, God used the Israelites as an instrument of judgement against them. This emphasises the point we are all our brothers and sisters keepers. No one goes to heaven alone and no one goes to hell alone.

I think this passage sums it up quite well “After the LORD, your God, has thrust them out of your way, do not say to yourselves, ‘It is because of my merits that the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; for it is really because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out before you. No, it is not because of your merits or the integrity of your heart that you are going in to take possession of their land; but the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out before you on account of their wickedness and in order to keep the promise which he made on oath to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Understand this, therefore: it is not because of your merits that the LORD, your God, is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.” – Deuteronomy 9:4-6

 

[Barbara_Ann_Bau]

Yes Agustine3 your post makes a lot of sense. I haven’t had time to look up the “just war” doctrines as our Bible study group has moved on to 2 Samuel and I have not completed my lessons for tomorrow.