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Nicholas_II
Guest
is all joy from God? I dont mean joy I won the lottery…just joy with my lot.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
I don’t know where else it could be from. Pleasures, not joy, come from the world, the flesh, and the devil.
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Nicholas_II
Guest
ok. Say if I finally married the woman of my dreams and she was divorced, yet my childhood sweetheard, we should never have gone our seperate ways…you know the story…is that joy from God.
totally unrelated example…perhaps the complete opposite…
Also, if me and the wife, are sitting having a few drinks too many, and we are listening to music and dancing and I’m so happy and I love my life, my wife, my church sooooooo much I want to cry with joy…yet in a weird secular context…is that joy from God?
totally unrelated example…perhaps the complete opposite…
Also, if me and the wife, are sitting having a few drinks too many, and we are listening to music and dancing and I’m so happy and I love my life, my wife, my church sooooooo much I want to cry with joy…yet in a weird secular context…is that joy from God?
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
I think joy is something experienced at a moment anticipating great fortune or achievement. It is a brief moment of exultation, rather than the ongoing state of what we might call a happy life. Joy has to be distinguished from contentment also.
Having a few drinks with your wife is contenment. Fondling your child for the first time is joy.
One thinks of “Joy to the World, the Lord Has come.”
A joyful light shines at the end of a dark tunnel of miseries.
Joy comes at a turning point that exudes hope, as for one who returns to the Church.
Having a few drinks with your wife is contenment. Fondling your child for the first time is joy.
One thinks of “Joy to the World, the Lord Has come.”
A joyful light shines at the end of a dark tunnel of miseries.
Joy comes at a turning point that exudes hope, as for one who returns to the Church.
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yppop
Guest
Hello Nicholas
I am a bit surprised that this thread has gotten so few posts because joy is a great gift from God, a true impetus to advance along the path of increasing goodness in the world. Let me explain:
God’s grace flows to us through three conduits. Awe comes to us through the conduit of Wonder and is called Habitual Grace. Peace comes to us through the conduit of Piety and is called Sacramental Grace. Joy comes to us through the conduit of Love and is called Actual Grace. The flow of grace, that is to say, the creation of awe, peace, and joy in one’s personal life is enhanced by one’s own free will. The flow of grace in each of the conduits is energized and enhanced by one’s awareness, acquiescence, and action.
Awareness is associated with Habitual Grace that takes the form of wonder of the mystery and miracles of our milieu. It requires study and contemplation. Acquiescence is associated with Sacramental Grace that takes the form of pious worship. It requires devotion and prayer. Action is associated with Actual Grace that takes the form of love of fellow man. It requires compassion and sacrifice.
In contrast to pleasure, Joy is accumulative; it builds upon itself and exists in a hierarchy of intensity. Thus we identify: delight, gladness, bliss, rapture, and ecstasy as various intensity of joy. Joy is seldom given as a reward for action directed towards self.
Yppop
I am a bit surprised that this thread has gotten so few posts because joy is a great gift from God, a true impetus to advance along the path of increasing goodness in the world. Let me explain:
God’s grace flows to us through three conduits. Awe comes to us through the conduit of Wonder and is called Habitual Grace. Peace comes to us through the conduit of Piety and is called Sacramental Grace. Joy comes to us through the conduit of Love and is called Actual Grace. The flow of grace, that is to say, the creation of awe, peace, and joy in one’s personal life is enhanced by one’s own free will. The flow of grace in each of the conduits is energized and enhanced by one’s awareness, acquiescence, and action.
Awareness is associated with Habitual Grace that takes the form of wonder of the mystery and miracles of our milieu. It requires study and contemplation. Acquiescence is associated with Sacramental Grace that takes the form of pious worship. It requires devotion and prayer. Action is associated with Actual Grace that takes the form of love of fellow man. It requires compassion and sacrifice.
In contrast to pleasure, Joy is accumulative; it builds upon itself and exists in a hierarchy of intensity. Thus we identify: delight, gladness, bliss, rapture, and ecstasy as various intensity of joy. Joy is seldom given as a reward for action directed towards self.
Yppop
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4Horsemen
Guest
Hi Yppop!
First, let me say, that I am in awe at the profundity of your post. May I ask, where this understanding of joy is to be found, or if it comes from inspiration (due to the Holy Spirit)?
Of course joy is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. It is given freely and actuated by our free will as you mentioned. I think that most people experience what they call “joy” in their lives although they may not define “joy” in the same way as a Christian and certainly not in the capacity of your definition. Joy is not merely a feeling of being “happy” for one can have a sense of “joy” even in sorrow, as in the death of a loved one. For the Christian, joy is intimately associated with the Kingdom of God. “The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteourness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17). Certainly, there are numerous references in Scripture to “joy,” “rejoicing,” “gladness” associated with the presence of God and righteousness. Sometimes we do feel “awe,” “peace,” and “joy,” but when we don’t necessarily feel God’s presence, we still know it in our hearts. And that is our joy, which no one can take away from us.
“You now have sorrow, but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man can take from you.” (John 16:22)
God bless,
4Horseman
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yppop
Guest
Hello 4Horseman
Beautifully put! You obviously understand the nature and source of joy and how to extract it. Whatever understanding I may have is the result of much study and contemplation. Since none of us have a truly original thought I regard any that we may think is original to be from the Holy Spirit through a process I call radial insight, which I contrast with another process I call tangential insight, which are the ideas we extract from the collective knowledge of Mankind, the thing Teilhard de Chardin called the noosphere.
Glad to hear from you once again. We had a very nice discussion on the Catholic Cosmology page last month and you explained the Rookieonedge name. Now I am going to guess where the 4Horsemen came from. Surely it isn’t the apocalyptic version but is associated with a certain football team.
Our previous discussion centered on my thread, “God Exists, but How” and if you are still following it, I will soon be explaining how I think God (the Holy Spirit) rewards us with grace.
May your life be filled with joy!
Yppop
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4Horsemen
Guest
Hi again Yppop!
I awoke this morning thinking about joy and what it means in our lives. Just a couple of thoughts. . . if you will. When the Holy Spirit produces joy in our “hearts,” we are really talking about the depth of our being (obviously). I just want to reflect that the spirit of joy is all-encompassing; it enfolds love and peace and all the fruits of the Spirit. Yet, we can also say that about love and peace, so joy=love=peace, you might say. And we can add, equals God for God is each virture and the summation of all virtues. Furthermore, He is the souce, center, and summit of our lives. When we find joy in our lives, we are finding God; and, conversely, when we find God, we experience (actively or passively) the joy that we all seek. Whether the atheist realizes it or not, s/he is seeking God.
Scripture instructs us to seek Wisdom and take delight in Her. (Book of Proverbs) Wisdom brings joy into our hearts. David took delight in the statutes of the Lord – the Wisdom that is God, Himself. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
If we want to actually see “pure joy” at work, we should take the advice of Our Lord and “become as little children, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.” The actual verse is Matthew 18:3, “Verily I say unto you, except you be converted and become as little children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.” Most all of us can relate to the joy that seems to burst forth from children because they are, quite naturally, without guile. They are joy in action.
My understanding is not from learned sources or analytical (“radial insight” and “tangential insight” are mysterious to me), but I think the Holy Spirit is teaching me, all of us, the intricacies of His great works (like your thread on cosmology, “God exists, but how?” which I hope to get back to reading–not that I can participate on so lofty a subject, but I want to learn). Someday, we will have infused knowledge in eternity and communicate in unison with understanding and joy pervading our souls. Right now, I’m trying to read a couple of books (here and there–I’m mostly busy but steal time) on St. Thomas Aquinas’ philosophy besides some spiritual reading.
As for the moniker, I didn’t know about the football reference until just very recently. I picked it due to the biblical reference in Revelation and my screen saver which features a frame from the movie Lord of the Rings where the black riders are being pursued by the white “horses” which proceeded from the waves of gushing waters as Arwen intoned an elvish passage. Anyway, I’m getting off the subject, so I’ll just leave it at that hoping there will be more posts on this interesting subject.
Let joy soar in your soul!
God bless!
4Horsemen
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