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JaredR
Guest
Do you think it’s wrong to pray for joy (because we are called to self-denial, etc)? I can’t find any prayers for joy or a more praise-filled heart, so I was wondering if this is a poor intention?
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Student09
Guest
Joy is a fruit (or gift? I get them mixed up) of the Holy Spirit.
In “The Little Flowers of St. Francis,” there is a story in which St. Francis and Brother Leo are walking and St. Francis begins listing a number of things that are *not *perfect joy: healing the lame, converting people, knowing all the sciences, having the gift of prophecy, etc. Eventually Brother Leo asks St. Francis was perfect joy is. St. Francis tells him that if they were to show up at the monastery they are walking to, freezing cold and shivering in the snow after nightfall, having had nothing to eat all day, and the porter at the gate doesn’t recognize them and won’t let them in out of the snow, but rather calls them names and beats them with a club, then leaves them there all night, and they suffer all of this patiently and joyfully for the love of Christ, that is perfect joy.
So sure, go ahead and pray for joy.
In “The Little Flowers of St. Francis,” there is a story in which St. Francis and Brother Leo are walking and St. Francis begins listing a number of things that are *not *perfect joy: healing the lame, converting people, knowing all the sciences, having the gift of prophecy, etc. Eventually Brother Leo asks St. Francis was perfect joy is. St. Francis tells him that if they were to show up at the monastery they are walking to, freezing cold and shivering in the snow after nightfall, having had nothing to eat all day, and the porter at the gate doesn’t recognize them and won’t let them in out of the snow, but rather calls them names and beats them with a club, then leaves them there all night, and they suffer all of this patiently and joyfully for the love of Christ, that is perfect joy.
So sure, go ahead and pray for joy.
L
Lief_Erikson
Guest
Lol!Joy is a fruit (or gift? I get them mixed up) of the Holy Spirit.
In “The Little Flowers of St. Francis,” there is a story in which St. Francis and Brother Leo are walking and St. Francis begins listing a number of things that are not perfect joy: healing the lame, converting people, knowing all the sciences, having the gift of prophecy, etc. Eventually Brother Leo asks St. Francis was perfect joy is. St. Francis tells him that if they were to show up at the monastery they are walking to, freezing cold and shivering in the snow after nightfall, having had nothing to eat all day, and the porter at the gate doesn’t recognize them and won’t let them in out of the snow, but rather calls them names and beats them with a club, then leaves them there all night, and they suffer all of this patiently and joyfully for the love of Christ, that is perfect joy.
So sure, go ahead and pray for joy.
It’s vital to understand when considering that story that they would not be feeling miserable while out there in the cold. If they accepted it all for Jesus, in union with His Passion, this would bring them true spiritual joy, not mere mental or physical misery. This can create a great overflow of happiness in the midst of suffering. Or it might bring a sense of peace and pleasure to be serving God. We are called to have joy in all circumstances, so you do well to pray for joy.
Philippians 4:11-13
11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.
Jesus Christ is our hope and our joy. Trust in Him and offer Him thanks and praise in all circumstances, and He will be your strength and grace. He may or may not want to give you consolation, but definitely pray for real spiritual joy and you will find Him present in all your sufferings, which will be all you need, and in time, all you desire as well.
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Rawb
Guest
I think I learned what Joy is just after my conversion. I was feeling miserable for something. I don’t even remember what now. I may have been really sick, or it might have been my grandfather’s death, or maybe I was just depressed.
But in my heart, deep down, I knew this wasn’t it. There would be a tomorrow. Even if not on this Earth, there would be a tomorrow with Christ. Knowing that Christ still loved me, the saints were still rooting for me, that the Holy Spirit was with me, that all of this was preparing me for something more and that even in the midst of that horrible time I could offer that pain back to Christ and He would do something amazing with it made everything SO much more bearable. I was an entirely different person than I would’ve been without that.
And thinking about it then I realized that that joy came from hope. Joy I think comes from the Hope we have in Christ. A bit of Faith too. Those are virtues, and it’s always a good thing to pray for an increase in a virtue.
But in my heart, deep down, I knew this wasn’t it. There would be a tomorrow. Even if not on this Earth, there would be a tomorrow with Christ. Knowing that Christ still loved me, the saints were still rooting for me, that the Holy Spirit was with me, that all of this was preparing me for something more and that even in the midst of that horrible time I could offer that pain back to Christ and He would do something amazing with it made everything SO much more bearable. I was an entirely different person than I would’ve been without that.
And thinking about it then I realized that that joy came from hope. Joy I think comes from the Hope we have in Christ. A bit of Faith too. Those are virtues, and it’s always a good thing to pray for an increase in a virtue.
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Student09
Guest
Yes. Here’s the actual quote from the story:
I think what I was trying to say was, joy and self-denial are not considered to be in contradiction. Rather the two should go hand in hand. Jesus told us to be joyful when we fast.
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Bookcat
Guest
of course not! It is a great intention! Especially now!
Paul says…Rejoice in the Lord Always!
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20100407_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20100403_veglia-pasquale_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/angelus/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_reg_20100405_easter-monday_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/angelus/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_reg_20100411_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/urbi/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20100404_urbi-easter_en.html
“May the Virgin Mary support us with her protection and help us to savour the Easter joy to the full so that in turn we may bring it to all our brothers and sisters.”
-Pope Benedict XVI
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Bookcat
Guest
Paul wrote for example:
For the kingdom of God is … righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom 14:17 RSV)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. (Gal 5:22 RSV)
For the kingdom of God is … righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom 14:17 RSV)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. (Gal 5:22 RSV)
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Lief_Erikson
Guest
I knew you knew
. I was just making sure it was clear in case others didn’t.Yep, spiritual joy is a result of sacrifice humbly offered to God. I think it results from seeing God in all things and offering all things to Him. The more we see God in all things, the more we can offer ourselves and all our circumstances and goods to Him. Then, the more we humbly offer Him just everything that is, the more we will be flexible in His hand and submissive to Him. When we are more submissive to His will, He can unite us with Himself more easily, and unity with God brings genuine spiritual joy. As Rawb was saying, this is not just a consolation.
Yesterday, I was talking with an extremely spiritually mature Catholic named Bob who I greatly admire and respect. I was actually extremely privileged, for I had breakfast that morning with him on one side of me and the leader of our Bible Study, another uber-mature Catholic, on the other side of me. Anyway, Bob related to me a story of how he experienced God at Medjugorje. I don’t believe the visionaries at Medjugorje are really experiencing Mary or God there, but I do believe in many of the experiences other people going there have had, certainly including that of Bob.
Anyway, he told me that while the priest was consecrating and serving the bread of the Eucharist, he went into ecstasy. His experience was of being in the presence of God, and this filled him with unfathomable joy and the offering of total devotion. He said that when we get to Heaven, all we will want is to be fully adoring God all the time.
It strikes me that in this turning toward God is our spiritual joy. Joy does not come from accomplishments or compliments from people, or from anything that tends to glorify the self. It comes from glorifying God. In Bob’s experience, pure joy was found in pure devotion to God. This is counter-intuitive for all of us in the sense that we are accustomed to gaining pleasure from things that elevate us or fulfill our desires, but truly, all concentration on the self steals from real joy by offering only a cheap substitute. True joy is in selfless love for God, and the more we love Him in all circumstances, no matter what, including and especially in the Cross, the more our joy will overflow.
B
Bookcat
Guest
“May the Virgin Mary support us with her protection and help us to savour the Easter joy to the full so that in turn we may bring it to all our brothers and sisters.”
-Pope Benedict XVI
-Pope Benedict XVI
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