Joy?

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Hello. I am a convert to Catholicism and one question that always puzzled me was Catholics and joy. Protestants have joy because they think they know for sure that they are going to heaven. For Catholics, there is no assurance. How does one get joy?
 
I do not know about others, but I often feel a warm inner glow, presumably from the Holy Spirit, that results in an unsolicited joy.
 
On “a given day” one can have a kind of moral certainty …but not absolute infallible certainty (unless perhaps by a very extraordinary special private revelation from God)…for as Paul even says he is not conscious of anything…but he is not there by justified …it is the Lord who judges (see 1 Cor 4:3-4)…

But as I said one can yes have moral certainty…a practical certainty… (cf 1 John 5:13)

which is a kind of certitude…a “kind of knowing”

Positive indications can be:

From the orientation of ones heart towards God in love…it is filled with the things of God satisfying my desires…with hope in God…or other ways the “presence of God” is “experienced” in prayer and in various ways…etc (cf Rom 8:16, 2 Cor 13:15)

Or from negative indications: that is not being conscious of any mortal sin…

(obviously we are speaking of a person who has been baptized into Christ)
*
We walk by Faith not by sight* (2 Cor 5:7)

(and at times one must walk by a more dark faith…especially during periods of purification or certain periods in the spiritual life)
*
and are saved in hope* (see Romans 8:24)…and have the* “certitude of hope”*!

On “a given day” one have a kind of “moral certitude” and one thus lives in Faith and Hope following Jesus of Nazareth in Love…for he indeed is our Hope.

Our hope and trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ! The Good Shepherd! I know* him* in whom I believe!
 
And having “true life” in Jesus of of Nazareth via faith and baptism et al ~ we have joy!

“If we are in relation with him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live”.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Spe Salvi)

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi.html

(such is not per se a matter of the emotions…tis deeper that such …though it can can does effect the emotions too at times…Christian joy though can exist even in great suffering…)
 
“The joy of the gospel fills the hearts and lives of all who encounter Jesus.”

“I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord”.”

“The Lord does not disappoint those who take this risk; whenever we take a step towards Jesus, we come to realize that he is already there, waiting for us with open arms. Now is the time to say to Jesus: “Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love, yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you. I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”. How good it feels to come back to him whenever we are lost! Let me say this once more: God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy. Christ, who told us to forgive one another “seventy times seven” (Mt 18:22) has given us his example: he has forgiven us seventy times seven. Time and time again he bears us on his shoulders. No one can strip us of the dignity bestowed upon us by this boundless and unfailing love. With a tenderness which never disappoints, but is always capable of restoring our joy, he makes it possible for us to lift up our heads and to start anew. Let us not flee from the resurrection of Jesus, let us never give up, come what will. May nothing inspire more than his life, which impels us onwards!”…

“I realize of course that joy is not expressed the same way at all times in life, especially at moments of great difficulty. Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures, even as a flicker of light born of our personal certainty that, when everything is said and done, we are infinitely loved.”

~ Pope Francis (The Joy of the Gospel)

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html#The_joy_of_the_gospel
 
"Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).

Therefore, let us face our life with its joys and sorrows supported by these great sentiments that Paul offers to us. By having an experience of them we will realize how true are the words the Apostle himself wrote: “I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me”; in other words, until the Day (II Tm 1: 12) of our definitive meeting with Christ the Judge, Saviour of the world and our Saviour."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108.html
 
“Gaudete in Domino semper - Rejoice in the Lord always (Phil 4: 4).”

“Christian joy thus springs from this certainty: God is close, he is with me, he is with us, in joy and in sorrow, in sickness and in health, as a friend and faithful spouse. And this joy endures, even in trials, in suffering itself. It does not remain only on the surface; it dwells in the depths of the person who entrusts himself to God and trusts in him.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/angelus/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_ang_20071216.html

“… there is one great Friend, who is the author of the joy of all and who fills our hearts with a joy that surpasses all other joys and lasts a lifetime: he is Jesus.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2012/december/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20121220_acr.html
 
“Dear friends, today too the Risen One enters our homes and our hearts, even when, at times, the doors are closed. He enters giving joy and peace, life and hope, gifts we need for our human and spiritual rebirth. Only he can roll away those stones from the tombs in which all too often people seal themselves off from their own feelings, their own relationships, their own behaviour; stones that sanction death: division, enmity, resentment, envy, diffidence, indifference. Only he, the Living One, can give meaning to existence and enable those who are weary and sad, downhearted and drained of hope, to continue on their journey. This was the experience of the two disciples who were on their way from Jerusalem to Emmaus on Easter Day (cf. Lk 24:13-35). They were talking about Jesus but their sad looks (cf. v. 17), expressed their disappointed hopes, uncertainty and melancholy. They had left their homeland to follow Jesus with his friends and had discovered a new reality in which forgiveness and love were no longer only words but had a tangible effect on life. Jesus of Nazareth had made all things new, he had transformed their life. But now he was dead and it all seemed to be over.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

"With Jesus’ arrival the disciple’s situation of anguish changes radically. He enters through closed doors, he stands in their midst and gives them the peace that reassures: “Peace to you” (Jn 20:19b). It is a common greeting but it now acquires new significance because it brings about an inner change; it is the Easter greeting that enables the disciples to overcome all fear. The peace that Jesus brings is the gift of salvation that he had promised in his farewell discourses: “peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid” (Jn 14:27).

On this day of the Resurrection he gives it in fullness and for the community it becomes a source of joy, the certainty of victory, and security in relying on God. “Let not your hearts be troubled”, (Jn 14:1), do not be afraid, he also says to us."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

“In Jerusalem they hear the news of Jesus’ Resurrection and, in turn, they recount their own experience, on fire with love for the Risen One who has opened their hearts to an uncontainable joy. As St Peter says, they were “born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (cf. 1 Pet 1:3). Indeed, the enthusiasm of faith, love for the community, the need to communicate the Good News was reborn within them. The Teacher is risen and with him all life is reborn; witnessing to this event becomes an irrepressible need for them.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2012/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20120411.html
 
"“Gaudete in Domino semper”, St Paul wrote: “Rejoice in the Lord always” (Phil 4:4). True joy is not a fruit of “divertirsi” [having a good time] understood in the etymological sense of the word di-vertere (di-version), that is, shirking the commitments of life and one’s responsibilities.

True joy is linked to something deeper. Of course, in the all too often frenetic pace of daily life it is important to find time for rest and relaxation, but true joy is linked to our relationship with God. Those who have encountered Christ in their own lives feel a serenity and joy in their hearts that no one and no situation can take from them. St Augustine understood this very well; in his quest for truth, peace and joy, after seeking them in vain in many things he concluded with his famous words: “and our heart is restless until it rests in God” (cf. Confessions, I, 1, 1).

True joy is not merely a passing state of mind or something that can be achieved with the person’s own effort; rather it is a gift, born from the encounter with the living Person of Jesus and, making room within ourselves, from welcoming the Holy Spirit who guides our lives. It is the invitation of the Apostle Paul who says: “May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:23)."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/angelus/2011/documents/hf_ben-xvi_ang_20111211.html
 
Hello. I am a convert to Catholicism and one question that always puzzled me was Catholics and joy. Protestants have joy because they think they know for sure that they are going to heaven. For Catholics, there is no assurance. How does one get joy?
The joy of “once saved always saved” reminds me that “mysticism without asceticism is a shame. Baptism is not the ticket to heaven. Baptism leads us to a life time journey of working toward holiness. Catholics have the joy of faith and hope, a full journey brings us the joy of the Lord in the entire process.
 
Jesus gave us faith and baptism to receive* true life* in him.

And thus true joy.

Baptism already makes one holy. We are to become more holy…but one is made holy already (a saint) with baptism into Christ.

The grace (and thus joy!) of Baptism: scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm#VII

Can we scuttle the ship? Yes by mortal sin that we die in…

But thankfully that true life is offered to us again in the Sacrament of penance…where we can once again receive the joy of the Holy Spirit…the joy from the Resurrection.

(take time to read all the various quotes I gave above -they are very rich).
 
Thank you Bookcat and everyone else. I need this. Its been a tough month.
 
… Protestants have joy because they think they know for sure that they are going to heaven. …
Are you sure about that? Protestants have moments of doubt and fear, and Catholics have moments of hope and joy. I don’t think we are so much different.
 
Joy is one of those things that should not be “up and down” based on what’s happening around you. It’s peace deep within you - it’s something that when you’re emotions are on that roller coaster heading down you can hold on to during the rougher and lower times of our lives. It is fed by the Word and surrounding yourself with Him in every aspect of our spiritual life will strengthen that Joy within you.
 
Are you sure about that? Protestants have moments of doubt and fear, and Catholics have moments of hope and joy. I don’t think we are so much different.
I’m sure about that. My whole family are Protestant Evangelicals. They believe they are assured of heaven. All they have to do is believe. Penance and good works are not necessary in their eyes. I know they have doubt as any human being does, but they believe in once saved, always saved.
 
I often wonder how any Catholic can have joy when he/she is witness to many loved one’s who live their lives counter to the faith. (do not attend church, have sympathies for gay marriage, so many other things I will not mention here.

We believe in a binary outcome, heaven or hell. We believe in a concept of mortal sin which, when carefully examined can easily be attributed to most everyone.

How does one have joy when dear loved ones, those of whom we love with all out heart and soul (children, grandchildren), are on the likely path to hell?

Hell being a choice is not an explanation I can subscribe to. I do understand it is a choice to not be a faithful Catholic. But I cannot understand how it is a choice to chose the “hell” we describe. One may not chose to be Catholic, but this does not directly translate to choosing hell.
 
I often wonder how any Catholic can have joy when he/she is witness to many loved one’s who live their lives counter to the faith. (do not attend church, have sympathies for gay marriage, so many other things I will not mention here.

We believe in a binary outcome, heaven or hell.
Read all the quotes I gave above from Pope Benedict XVI

To which I will add - in our joy we can pray and do penance for others

-indeed in our joy -we must share that joy of knowing Jesus of Nazareth - knowing true life in him - with others.

“The Lord has risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!” (Lk 24: 34). This is the “Good News” par excellence in the entire history of the world, it is the “Gospel” proclaimed and passed on down the centuries, from generation to generation…The Good News of Easter, therefore, requires the action of enthusiastic and courageous witnesses. Each disciple of Christ, and also each one of us, is called to be a witness. This is the precise, demanding and exalting mandate of the Risen Lord. The “news” of new life in Christ must shine out in the life of Christians, it must be alive and active in those who bring it, really capable of changing hearts and the whole of life…Therefore the Lord sends us everywhere as his witnesses. But we can only be such on the basis of and with continuous reference to the Paschal experience, the experience which Mary Magdalene expresses when she announces to the other disciples: “I have seen the Lord” (Jn 20: 18). This personal encounter with the Risen One is the steadfast foundation and central content of our faith, the fresh and inexhaustible source of our hope, the ardent dynamism of our charity. Thus our Christian life itself will fully coincide with the announcement: “Christ the Lord has risen, indeed”. Let us, therefore, allow ourselves to be won over by the fascination of Christ’s Resurrection."

~ Pope Benedict XVI Gen. Audience April 7, 2010

"Consequently, it is fundamental for our faith and for our Christian witness to proclaim the Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth as a real, historical event, attested by many authoritative witnesses. We assert this forcefully because, in our day too, there are plenty of people who seek to deny its historicity, reducing the Gospel narrative to a myth, to a “vision” of the Apostles, taking up and presenting old and already worn-out theories as new and scientific…

Let us welcome him with faith and adhere generously to his Gospel, as did the privileged witnesses of his Resurrection; and as, some years later, did St Paul who encountered the divine Teacher in an extraordinary manner on the Road to Damascus. We cannot keep for ourselves alone the proclamation of this Truth that changes the life of all."

~ Pope Benedict XVI Aud 4-15-09

"We impose nothing, yet we propose ceaselessly, as Peter recommends in one of his Letters: “In your hearts, reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defence to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you” (1 Pet 3:15). And everyone, in the end, asks this of us, even those who seem not to. From personal and communal experience, we know well that it is Jesus whom everyone awaits. In fact, the most profound expectations of the world and the great certainties of the Gospel meet in the ineluctable mission which is ours, for “without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. In the face of the enormous problems surrounding the development of peoples, which almost make us yield to discouragement, we find solace in the sayings of our Lord Jesus Christ, who teaches us: ‘Apart from me you can do nothing’ (Jn 15:5) and who encourages us: ‘I am with you always, to the close of the age’ (Mt 28:20)”

~ Pope Benedict XVI Caritas in Veritate, 78.

“…we hear the cry of the Apostle to the Gentiles resounding with special urgency: “Woe to me if I do not preach the Gospel!” (1 Cor 9: 16); a cry that becomes for every Christian a pressing invitation to serve Christ. “The harvest is plentiful” (Mt 9: 37) the Divine Teacher still repeats today: so many still do not know him and are awaiting the first proclamation of his Gospel; others, although they received a Christian formation, have become less enthusiastic and retain only a superficial contact with God’s Word; yet others have drifted away from the practice of the faith and need a new evangelization. Then there are plenty of people of right understanding who ask themselves essential questions about the meaning of life and death, questions to which only Christ can give satisfactory answers. It is, therefore, becoming indispensable for Christians on every continent to be ready to reply to those who ask them to account for the hope that is in them (cf. 1 Pt 3: 15), joyfully proclaiming the Word of God and living the Gospel without compromises.”

Homily Pope Benedict XVI 5 Oct 2008
 
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