Joyce Meyer Ministries Drops the Ball

[sadie2723]

I always like to keep up on what some of the “respected” protestants are out there saying, so this morning I tuned in to Joyce Meyer. Joyce is out of Dallas, Texas and has a big church down there where she basically preaches the gospel of Health and Wealth: You know the type, “If you become a Christian, God is going to provide that promotion you have been looking for at work…that is, if you send me your love gift of 39.95.”

Well, she still has one heck of a following. So, I tune in once in a while to hear what she is saying. Today, she was talking about how to “Talk to the Devil” and she suggested that when confronted with the temptations of the Devil, the only cure was to throw the Rock of Christianity at the Devil. By Rock, she of course was talking about scripture. She said that scripture was the only thing in this world that the Devil could not stand against.

I sometimes wonder if Joyce, being the fundamentalist that she is, has ever actually read the Bible…can someone tell me where it talks about the Scripture as being the Rock? I thought all this time that the Rock was Peter, and that on the Rock the Church was built. And, then I also thought that the Church, not the Scripture, was the only thing that God ever says that the gates of Hell would not stand against. But, then again, I can back up my claims with scripture, Joyce on the other hand, is going to have a whale of a time backing hers up.

I just thought that I would post this for you so that you know some of the lunacy that is being preached out there.

 

[allischalmers]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

 

[sadie2723]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

I laughed out loud at this one. Care to back that one up with scripture? There is only one time where Jesus refers to anyone as the rock…including himself…and that is when he calls Peter the Rock. Your comment is pretty silly, not to mention without Biblical basis.

Sorry, but I am just going off what the scripture actually says…not what I want it to say.

Cheers!

 

[sadie2723]

Lets see what Matthew has to say on the subject: This is from Chapter 16:

14
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, 10 others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16
11 Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Woops…sorry tractor man, but there it is in scripture for you to read.

Now if you want to dive into it a little deeper, we can talk about language of the period. Jesus actually called Simon Kepha which is Greek for ROCK. Kepha was later translated as Peter, but the meaning is the same.

Yahoo! You gotta love it when Jesus says what he means!

 

[sterryfamily]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

Allischalmers; I appreciate your participation and your desire to grow in the truth. Just curious; Throughout salvation history,any time God changed a person’s name, it always had significant meaning. What do you suppose the meaning was when God changed Simon’s name to “Rock”. (It was actually Kepha in the Aramaic which Jesus and the Desciples spoke and, thus, in MT 16:18-19 we have, “And so I say to you, you are KEPHA, and upon this KEPHA I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”)

Why do you suppose God changed his name to “Rock”?

 

[LittleRose]

Today, she was talking about how to “Talk to the Devil” and she suggested that when confronted with the temptations of the Devil, the only cure was to throw the Rock of Christianity at the Devil.

Aren’t we supposed to talk to GOD when we are confronted with temptation and let HIM give the Devil the talking-to?

 

[MrS]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

And it was Peter to whom Jesus said

I will pray for you … so that he would not be lead astray (out of the Church)

And it was Peter to whom Jesus said three times “Do you love Me”

Feed My Sheep
Tend My Flock
Feed My Sheep

That was a singular grace to Peter to be the first of the shepherds to accept the responsibility to lead and teach the faithful.

By the way… wonderfully, that includes you and all Christians.

When the Magisterium of the Catholic Church teaches…

He who “…hears you hears Me… he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One Who sent Me…”

Please listen … and remember that listen means obey.

.

 

[sadie2723]

Sorry tractor man…things are not looking good for your arguement.

 

[asteroid]

We’re going to get into Matthew 16:18 again aren’t we?



[sign]Oh no, not again![/sign]

Anyway, we can all agree that Scripture isn’t called the Rock in Scripture.

So please can we avoid Matthew 16:18 arguments.

On that I’ll just say that calling Peter ‘sand’ is to ignore everything that happened after the resurrection and pentecost.

There is a problem with quoting Scripture to the Devil. That problem is he knows it, and can quote it, far better than any of us can. He even tried it with Jesus. He knows the Bible backwards, forwards and all ways and can do wonderful (in a negative sense) tricks with it for his purposes.

 

[Church_Militant]

Certainly our Lord answered his three temptations in the desert (that we know of) with scriptures, but probably only because the devil himself was quoting and twisting them in his tempting.

Joyce could do better than this milk teaching though.

Brad, do you know if she used James 4:7 in her teaching today? “7 Be subject therefore to God, but resist the devil, and he will fly from you.”

James chapter 4 deals specifically with temptation though of course so does James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy, when you shall fall into divers temptations; 3 Knowing that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 4 And patience hath a perfect work; that you may be perfect and entire, failing in nothing.
Pax tecum,

 

[Zooey]

I’ve been very disappointed in Joyce Meyer for quite some time…She seems to be increasing drawn to this sort of shallow thinking.
I have to agree that “talking to” the devil would be an awful waste of time that could be sent talking with God!

 

[happygal]

From the PM, i guess what Joyce Meyer message is all about dealing with the devil, everyday in life we are being temp by devil, and sometime devil just doesn’t want us to pray to Jesus, so when we encounter such problem how do we deal with it…etc, so nothing too difficult to understand by the term of Talk to devil

 

[santaro75]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

Are you being serious?

 

[santaro75]

Aren’t we supposed to talk to GOD when we are confronted with temptation and let HIM give the Devil the talking-to?

Joyce is really good at creating simple pictures of how things are supposed to work. She was merely saying that the “double edge sword” to slay the devil are the words in the bible.

I think she does an effective job at illustrating biblical concepts in ways that everyone can understand and relate to. taht is probably why she is so popular. good communicator.

 

[daeve]

Joyce is out of Dallas, Texas and has a big church down there where she basically preaches the gospel of Health and Wealth…

A not-very-important sidebar: Joyce Meyers Ministries World Headquarters is in Fenton, MO. The church has a huge – I mean HUGE – purple neon cross. I see it every time I go to my sisters’ houses.

 

[Jaypeeto3]

Sorry to disappoint one of the posters above,
but everyone who is in Heaven now is a Catholic now.
If she makes it, she too will be a Catholic, not a Baptist,
in Heaven. LOL.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

 

[cathgal]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

IF you only know how ridiculous this sound.

I deeply hope you will realize it one day.

 

[sadie2723]

Certainly our Lord answered his three temptations in the desert (that we know of) with scriptures, but probably only because the devil himself was quoting and twisting them in his tempting.

Joyce could do better than this milk teaching though.

Brad, do you know if she used James 4:7 in her teaching today? “7 Be subject therefore to God, but resist the devil, and he will fly from you.”

James chapter 4 deals specifically with temptation though of course so does James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy, when you shall fall into divers temptations; 3 Knowing that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 4 And patience hath a perfect work; that you may be perfect and entire, failing in nothing.
Pax tecum,

Church Militant! It is good to hear from you. This teaching at the University is keeping me busy and I don’t have the time for apologetics that I did over the summer.

On the subject of the scripture that she used, she focused only on Jesus in the desert. The James verses never came up. But, it was clear what she was getting at: She thinks that scripture is the Rock. She even had a Rock as a visual aid.

I just find it interesting that the Bible Churches take scripture as literal…unless it does not say what they want it to.

Cheers!

 

[Integritus]

Here’s the somewhat funny, certainly ironic, part of the whole matter:

When all English-speaking non-Catholics use the name “Peter” to talk about the Apostle, they are really simply calling him “Rock”.The English name Peter is just a modern “slang” derivative (if you will) for Jesus’ original Aramaic word “Kephas”, which in Aramaic literally means ‘massive rock’. It would be much more consistent for Protestants, Evangelicals, and Fundamentalists to start referring to him as his pre-revealed, “pre-rock” name: Simon. Ahh, but consistency is not their concern!

The English word historical timeline is as follows: Kephas (Aramaic) - Cephas (Aramaic sub) - Petra/Petros (Greek) - Petrus (Latin) - Peter (English)

Notice how ripe English translated Bibles show Paul referring to Peter as Cephas (literally calling him Rock): see John 1:42, 1 Corinthians 15:3-5, Gal 2:9, 1Corinthians 1:12, 1Corinthians 3:22, 1Corinthians 9:5. Wow. Just imagine if you had a friend named “Rock”. You would be like “How did you get that name?” But to understand that God Himself gave the name Rock to someone and all the Holy Apostles kept calling him that? WOW. There’s something there.

Paul and all of us understand very well what are souls are saying when we utter the Apostle’s name in any dialect… IT ALL MEANS ROCK. Thank you Lord, for such a visible rock! A beautiful revelation of only Your promise!

In peace with Christ, the Divinely Annointed.

 

[sadie2723]

Here’s the somewhat funny, certainly ironic, part of the whole matter:

When all English-speaking non-Catholics use the name “Peter” to talk about the Apostle, they are really simply calling him “Rock”.The English name Peter is just a modern “slang” derivative (if you will) for Jesus’ original Aramaic word “Kephas”, which in Aramaic literally means ‘massive rock’. It would be much more consistent for Protestants, Evangelicals, and Fundamentalists to start referring to him as his pre-revealed, “pre-rock” name: Simon. Ahh, but consistency is not their concern!

The English word historical timeline is as follows: Kephas (Aramaic) - Cephas (Aramaic sub) - Petra/Petros (Greek) - Petrus (Latin) - Peter (English)

Notice how ripe English translated Bibles show Paul referring to Peter as Cephas (literally calling him Rock): see John 1:42, 1 Corinthians 15:3-5, Gal 2:9, 1Corinthians 1:12, 1Corinthians 3:22, 1Corinthians 9:5

Paul and all of us understand very well what are souls are saying when we utter the Apostle’s name in any dialect… IT ALL MEANS ROCK. Thank you Lord, for such a visible rock! A beautiful revelation of only Your promise!

In peace with Christ, the Divinely Annointed.

I challenge anyone to say it better than that. Best post I have read on the subject in a long time!

Notice that our protestant has not been posting since the original post. Too bad. I am sure he is reading his Bible right now going, “I can’t believe that is REALLY what it says!”

Welcome to CAF!