Joyce Meyer Ministries Drops the Ball

[Steadfast]

Joyce Meyer is Word of Faith-lite, she’s a more intimate, female version of Joel Osteen only she’s less phoney.

She spends more time on teaching people how to get over problems and realize their “life skills” than on the name it and claim it stuff. But it’s all of a piece, she still thinks the point of the Atonement was to preserve us from the uncomfortableness of life in a fallen world.

I don’t think she’s “respected”. She’s a demagogue…not a theologian…but then, maybe that’s all America loves.

 

[Fidelis]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

Honestly, Allischalmers, I’m disappointed in you. After all this time you have spent on this board, for you to throw out such a basic piece of doggerel that has been refuted time and again, is an insult to the intelligence of everyone here.

Doubtless this works on hapless, undercatechized Catholics you encounter – but here??

 

[StMarkEofE]

Sorry to disappoint one of the posters above,
but everyone who is in Heaven now is a Catholic now.
If she makes it, she too will be a Catholic, not a Baptist,
in Heaven. LOL.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

So there is religion in Heaven? When did this happen?

 

[Will_Pick]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

THIS IS NEW TO ME WILL YOU PLEASE GIVE US THE CHAPTER AND VERSE IT MUST ONE I MISSED.

 

[sterryfamily]

So there is religion in Heaven? When did this happen?

Jesus said He came to establish His Church and He is King of Heaven and Earth. Revelations describes the Heavenly liturgy which is the (timeless) participation with the Church Militant in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!

 

[LilyM]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

Umm … didn’t Paul persecute and kill Christians prior to his conversion (sounds like he also denied Jesus plenty), and didn’t Jesus choose him as a servant anyway?

And wasn’t Peter the one charged (charged ALONE mind you) by Jesus to feed his sheep and lambs - AFTER he had denied Christ and Christ had resurrected? Didn’t Jesus give him and the other Apostles the power to bind and loose heaven and forgive and retain sins - AFTER they had ALL (apart from John) run away from him in the Garden?

And wasn’t Peter the one Jesus prayed for (ALONE of all the Apostles) at the Last Supper, knowing that Peter would deny him, so that Satan WOULDN’T win the battle for his soul, and that Peter could strengthen THE OTHERS afterwards.

Sure sounds Peter was designated for the leadership position and to be the pre-eminent rock of faith (Jesus always being the cornerstone of course) to me.

 

[Eden]

It is sad that so many Americans are attracted to these motivational speakers who claim to be preaching Christianity. The message of health and wealth won’t sustain Meyer’s followers in the difficult times which leaves them vulnerable to losing faith altogether.

 

[sadie2723]

It is sad that so many Americans are attracted to these motivational speakers who claim to be preaching Christianity. The message of health and wealth won’t sustain Meyer’s followers in the difficult times which leaves them vulnerable to losing faith altogether.

Amen Eden!

 

[Al_Masetti]

Seems to me that Joyce Meyer’s message is that we should put our trust in Jesus. That we should study the Bible and take the Bible to heart and use the lessons in the Bible to guide our daily lives.

To call upon the Holy Spirit and look to the Holy Spirit for direction and guidance for everything in our daily lives… from parking spaces to jobs to finances to child rearing to marriage and family relations.

When we try to rely on our own resources, we get negative and stop having children, for example.

There is no assurance we will get a million dollars if we call upon Jesus. But without Jesus, we will end up bankrupt.

Anyway, that’s my take on Joyce Meyer’s preaching and exhortation.

 

[Giovanni]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

Great!

Did you bother reading the rest of the New Testament, or you make it up as you go.

Geez

 

[lak611]

It is sad that so many Americans are attracted to these motivational speakers who claim to be preaching Christianity. The message of health and wealth won’t sustain Meyer’s followers in the difficult times which leaves them vulnerable to losing faith altogether.

You are right! There is nothing in the Bible that promises health and wealth to Christians. In fact, Jesus says that Christians will be hated and persecuted (John 15: 18-19). This is completely contradictory to the so-called “prosperity gospel” message.

 

[MrS]

So there is religion in Heaven? When did this happen?
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Suprise… yep there is

If you will grant the following:

1] Religion, from the Greek, means a relationship

2] Implication is that the relationship is with God

3] Heaven is the presence of God which we hope to enjoy for eternity

4] It is the Lord’s wish that we all be one, as He and the Father are one

5] At death, we will see the beatific vision, and Truth will be presented to us. One Lord, One Faith, and one Baptism

6] That fullness of the Truth resides only in one Church… Catholic, and not any other.

7] By virtue of the fact that we will enjoy that fullness of the Truth, all in heaven will be Catholic… that will be their relationship with God.

but…

At death, since we all see the beatific vision, and the Truth is fulfilled even those who have condemned themselves to hell, …

are Catholic.

One Lord,

One Faith,

One Baptism

 

[brianwithani]

Great!

Did you bother reading the rest of the New Testament, or you make it up as you go.

Geez

The sarcasm and condescending remarks in this forum are really starting to turn me off. In what way are you glorifying our Lord or helping to educate a less informed brother? Maybe Joyce Meyer and the like are taking advantage of thousands and maybe Allischalmers is misguided but being snide only justifies their contempt for Catholics. We are blessed with the truth, we don’t have to stoop to sarcasm.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

These passages do not negate Peter as the Rock but they do refer to Jesus as the Rock as well.

I Corinthians 10:
3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

I Peter 2:7-8:

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,a]

  *“ The stone which the builders rejected*
  *Has become the chief cornerstone,”***("http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=I%20Peter%202:7-9;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-30401b")]

8 and

  *“ A stone of stumbling*
  *And a rock of offense.”*[c](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=I%20Peter%202:7-9;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-30402c)]

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

It might be helpful if we took these into account when we are chastening a Protestant for saying that Jesus is the Rock.

He is but so is Peter.

CDL

 

[Della]

The sarcasm and condescending remarks in this forum are really starting to turn me off. In what way are you glorifying our Lord or helping to educate a less informed brother? Maybe Joyce Meyer and the like are taking advantage of thousands and maybe Allischalmers is misguided but being snide only justifies their contempt for Catholics. We are blessed with the truth, we don’t have to stoop to sarcasm.

I agree that we shouldn’t be sarcastic and condescending, but then I can understand the frustration of some of us who have answered like AC again and again, who still make comments such as AC did, whose purpose seems more to stir up feelings than to enter into dialog. AC has been answered many, many times on this issue (and several others) and knows not only what Catholics believe but also what the Bible really says, so truly he is without excuse for his own behavior. But, we shouldn’t rise to baiting, but rather report it to the mods.

As to the issue of the thread, folks, everyone has somewhat missed the point. Joyce Meyers is calling the Scripture the Rock because she (along with a good many other Fundamentalists) believes that the written word of God is the same thing as the Word of God, who is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. She is deifying the Bible, people. So, our OP has every right to be shocked by such a theological blunder–one the is keeping many a soul from searching into the truths of the Faith handed on from Christ and the Apostles while listening to know-nothings like JM.

 

[allischalmers]

The word rock is used 119 times in the OT. Each time it is either a direct reference to Jesus Christ or is used as a type or shadow of Jesus Christ.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

 

[Della]

The word rock is used 119 times in the OT. Each time it is either a direct reference to Jesus Christ or is used as a type or shadow of Jesus Christ.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

Exactly so, but it is NOT used to refer to the written word of God.

Also, it was Jesus himself who called Simon “Rock”–so if you have a quarrel with it, tell HIM about it.

Christ had every right to assign whatever positions he desired for his Church on earth, the Church he plainly tells us he established. Therefore, Jesus assigning the position of head of the Church on earth to Peter was Christ’s right and privilege. There were no Baptists around at the time to tell him he shouldn’t do that.

 

[MrS]

Christ had every right to assign whatever positions he desired for his Church on earth, the Church he plainly tells us he established. Therefore, Jesus assigning the position of head of the Church on earth to Peter was Christ’s right and privilege. There were no Baptists around at the time to tell him he shouldn’t do that.

And there were no Baptists around to tell Luther he was way out of line and wrong either… darn…

.

 

[jimmy]

Hi;

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the chruch is built. Building the church upon Peter is like building a house upon sand which Jesus warned against. Peter truly was sand. Jesus said that if you deny my before man I will deny you before my father. Peter denied Jesus before men three times.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

If Peter was sand, why does his name mean Rock? In Matt.16 Christ changes his name from Simon saying, ‘you are Rock(petros in the greek, kephas in the Aramaic which is the language of Jesus) and on this rock(petra in the greek,kepha in the Aramaic) I will build my Church.’ Aparently Christ thought Peter was enough of a rock to call him rock.

So are you saying Peter is in hell because he denied Christ three times? That seems to be the implication, because Christs statement deals with the judgement.

 

[jimmy]

The word rock is used 119 times in the OT. Each time it is either a direct reference to Jesus Christ or is used as a type or shadow of Jesus Christ.

forever Baptist now and in heaven
allischalmers

Except every time the name Peter, or Cephas is mentioned. Peter or Cephas, which are the samething, both mean Rock and they refer to Simon bar Jona. Matt.16 refers to him as Petros. This means Rock. John1 Christ uses it Cephas, the Aramaic for Petros, to refer to Simon bar Jona. Paul refers to Simon as Cephas four times in 1 Corinthians and three times in Galatians. Cephas is Rock in Aramaic, which is the language Christ most likely spoke. Petros is Rock in Greek. So, John did not translate the name and Paul did not translate it.