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Marie5890
Guest
News reports are coming out of Rome (though unconfirmed at this point by the Vatican itself) that Pope John Paul ii will be signed off as venerable tomorrow, Dec 19th.
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redrosetea
Guest
I think it’s a done deal, and it is so exciting to think he was our pope for so many years
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cthulhubryan
Guest
What does being declared venerable mean?
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redrosetea
Guest
It means one miracle has been found to have happened through their intercession…another and he will be declared a saint
To prove a miracle is very difficult…it must pass through a board of Drs who can find no medical explanation for a cure…It must be an instantaneous cure and not a healing
To prove a miracle is very difficult…it must pass through a board of Drs who can find no medical explanation for a cure…It must be an instantaneous cure and not a healing
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cthulhubryan
Guest
Thanks. How does this related to being called “Blessed” or does it?
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redrosetea
Guest
Code:
Q. 1. How does one become a Saint?
A. 1. Contrary to the common belief that there are 3 steps to becoming a Saint, the Catholic Church teaches that there are 4 steps the becoming a Saint. Many teachers of this matter omit the first step.
Before a person can be considered for sainthood, he/she must have been dead for at least 5 years. (Pope John Paul II waived this requirement in Mother Teresa's case.)
First Step: When the subject arises that a person should be considered for Sainthood, a Bishop is placed in charge of the initial investigation of the person's life. If it is determined that the candidate is deemed worthy of further consideration, the Vatican grants a "Nihil Obstat." This is a Latin phrase that means "nothing hinders." Henceforth, the candidate is called a "Servant of God."
Second Step: The Church Official, a Postulator, who coordinates the process and serves as an advocate, must prove that the candidate lived heroic virtues. This is achived through the collection of documents and testimonies that are collected and presented to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints in Rome. When a candidate is approved, he/she earns the title of "Venerable."
Third Step: To be beatified and recognized as a "Blessed," one miracle acquired through the candidate’s intercession is required in addition to recognition of heroic virtue (or martyrdom in the case of a martyr).
Fourth Step: Canonization requires a second miracle after beatification, though a Pope may waive these requirements. (A miracle is not required prior to a martyr’s beatification, but one is required before his/her canonization.) Once this second miracle has been received through the candidate's intercession, the Pope declares the person a "Saint."
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dixieagle
Guest
I think that the miracle is required for “beatification”; to be declared “venerable” one must have been deemed to have lived a life of “heroic virtue.”
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redrosetea
Guest
Yes you are right
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MercyMia
Guest
Pray for us, JPII
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Aboveallbereal
Guest
I am currently reading the reflections of the late Holy Father on the Mysterium Iniquitas, the Mystery of why evil is tolerated, in his book Memory and Identity. I advise you all to read it. The late Holy Father brings his vast and unique life experience and insight to bear on his musings and reflections on this great question of faith.
My favourite picture of him was when kneeling at the Holy Door in 2000 with his hands gripping the crucifix…in pain yet visibly, staunchly and unflinchingly bearing St. Peter’s burden. I love and cherish his memory and advise you all to read Memory and Identity.
May the late Holy Father John Paul II pray for us all.
My favourite picture of him was when kneeling at the Holy Door in 2000 with his hands gripping the crucifix…in pain yet visibly, staunchly and unflinchingly bearing St. Peter’s burden. I love and cherish his memory and advise you all to read Memory and Identity.
May the late Holy Father John Paul II pray for us all.
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JReducation
Guest
A decree of Venerable is made by the Pontiff after a careful study of the person’s life, writings, and testimonies why those who knew the person. It’s very much like being on trial. During the time the postulator of the cause must prove that the person lived a heroic life of virtue. We’re referring here to the virtues as described in the scriptures. The person’s achievements don’t play a big role here. Many people, like St. Therese, had no achievements to their name, unlike John Paul II, Mother Teresa, Vincent de Paul and so forth. What you look at is how they lived their faith from day to day.
In the case of John Paul II, Pope Benedict gave a dispensation to begin the study shortly after he died. Normally, you don’t begin the study until five years after the person’s death.
The process is complex. The Postulator has to gather the writings of John Paul II, interview eye witnesses of his life and anything else that he or she can get his/her hands on that will support that John Paul lived a life of virtue that went over and beyond what the average Catholic does.
Once he completes this study, he had to submit his findings to a commitee of theologians. I believe there ae nine of them. They are usually experts in the mystical life, morals, scripture, systematic theology, philosophy, liturgy, and scripture. They have to read the report that the postulator submits and all the supporting documents. They may choose to recall the witnesses. Once they have finished, they vote. Obviously the vote was favorable.
Then the write up is sent to the Cardinals who belong to the Sacred Congregation for the Causes of the Saints. Among them there is one theologian whose job is to defend the truth. In other words, he asks the tough questions. He challenges everything. The Cardinals meet about once every two months until the Defender of the Faith, once upon a time called the Devil’s Advocate, is satisfied. He has to be satisfied that there is nothing that he can bring up against the candidate or questions that he can ask that don’t have a valid answer. When he rests his case, the Cardinals vote again. Again, John Paul passed the test of heoric virtue.
The documents and conclusions were sent to the Holy Father. He rereads everything. He can consult, if he wants to and ask as many questions as he wants. He can even send everything back, if he finds unanswered questions. Obviously, Pope Benedict was satisfied. He then sends a message to the Sacred Congregation to prepare the decree. When the decree is ready it is sent back to the Pope for him to sign and promulgate.
What the Holy Father is promulgating is that Pope John Paul lived a heroic Christian life. In layman’s English, that he lived a holy life. This is not an infallible statement. But it does carry the weight of the popes ordinary authority. Therefore, it is not to be taken lightly. It means that the faithful can venerate John Paul, but we cannot offer a public cult as we do for the saints. Once the decree is made, it is very hard to get it revoked. You have to dig up something that was not known to any one.
The next step is to begin the study of the alleged miracles. I say alleged, because we don’t attribute miracles to the now Venerable John Paul until we can prove that they were through his intercession. A committee of scientists and theologians is brought together. By law, a significant number of them must be atheists or non Catholics who do not beleive. When this committee finds one miracle that they cannot explain through natural causes, it is sent to the Holy Father who can the beatify. If they find two, the pope can canonize.
When I use can I have to be careful. The pope can canonize anyone without any studies, without any miracles. Canonization is an infallible decree. To make an infallible decree the pope does not need to consult or agree with his consultants. This process of committees and studies began around the 1100s. Prior to that it did not exist. Formal canonizations were rare. Most saints prior to that were never canonized. They were known to be saints through the vox populi. For example, none of the Apostles was ever canonized. They have traditionally been held up as saints.
The pope can also demand that the studies take place immediately, if he wants to see the process began and completed during his lifetime. It does not mean that the results are going to be in favor of the candidate. It simply means that he wants the study NOW. That’s he’s right as the Pontiff.
In reality, if a person is in heaven, it makes no difference to them if they are never canonized or they are canonized 500 years after their death. They’re still in heaven. The process is for the good of the faithful, not the saint.
Some popes have canonized without a study, without a beatification, without proving any miracles. Gregory IX canonzied St. Anthony of Padua less than a year after his death and St. Francis of Assis 18 months after his death. Neither went through the process. Pope Gregory had been the Cardinal Protector of the Order during the life time of Anthony and Francis. He knew them personally and knew of their holiness. When he canonized Francis he stated in his decree that he believed the reports o the miracles, because those who reported them were reliable. He never put them tot he test. St. Clare was canonized by Honorius IV on the first anniversary of her death. Again, there was no study, not miracles and no beatification. Pope Honorius and he Vaticnan knew St. Francis and his sons and daughters well enough to conclude that Clare was a saint. There have been other saints like this.
I don’t think that the Holy Father wants to canonize John Paul without some kind of investigattion. However, he is rushing the committe not to drag their feet, but study these miraclss and submit them to him.
I hope this helps,
Br. JR, OSF
In the case of John Paul II, Pope Benedict gave a dispensation to begin the study shortly after he died. Normally, you don’t begin the study until five years after the person’s death.
The process is complex. The Postulator has to gather the writings of John Paul II, interview eye witnesses of his life and anything else that he or she can get his/her hands on that will support that John Paul lived a life of virtue that went over and beyond what the average Catholic does.
Once he completes this study, he had to submit his findings to a commitee of theologians. I believe there ae nine of them. They are usually experts in the mystical life, morals, scripture, systematic theology, philosophy, liturgy, and scripture. They have to read the report that the postulator submits and all the supporting documents. They may choose to recall the witnesses. Once they have finished, they vote. Obviously the vote was favorable.
Then the write up is sent to the Cardinals who belong to the Sacred Congregation for the Causes of the Saints. Among them there is one theologian whose job is to defend the truth. In other words, he asks the tough questions. He challenges everything. The Cardinals meet about once every two months until the Defender of the Faith, once upon a time called the Devil’s Advocate, is satisfied. He has to be satisfied that there is nothing that he can bring up against the candidate or questions that he can ask that don’t have a valid answer. When he rests his case, the Cardinals vote again. Again, John Paul passed the test of heoric virtue.
The documents and conclusions were sent to the Holy Father. He rereads everything. He can consult, if he wants to and ask as many questions as he wants. He can even send everything back, if he finds unanswered questions. Obviously, Pope Benedict was satisfied. He then sends a message to the Sacred Congregation to prepare the decree. When the decree is ready it is sent back to the Pope for him to sign and promulgate.
What the Holy Father is promulgating is that Pope John Paul lived a heroic Christian life. In layman’s English, that he lived a holy life. This is not an infallible statement. But it does carry the weight of the popes ordinary authority. Therefore, it is not to be taken lightly. It means that the faithful can venerate John Paul, but we cannot offer a public cult as we do for the saints. Once the decree is made, it is very hard to get it revoked. You have to dig up something that was not known to any one.
The next step is to begin the study of the alleged miracles. I say alleged, because we don’t attribute miracles to the now Venerable John Paul until we can prove that they were through his intercession. A committee of scientists and theologians is brought together. By law, a significant number of them must be atheists or non Catholics who do not beleive. When this committee finds one miracle that they cannot explain through natural causes, it is sent to the Holy Father who can the beatify. If they find two, the pope can canonize.
When I use can I have to be careful. The pope can canonize anyone without any studies, without any miracles. Canonization is an infallible decree. To make an infallible decree the pope does not need to consult or agree with his consultants. This process of committees and studies began around the 1100s. Prior to that it did not exist. Formal canonizations were rare. Most saints prior to that were never canonized. They were known to be saints through the vox populi. For example, none of the Apostles was ever canonized. They have traditionally been held up as saints.
The pope can also demand that the studies take place immediately, if he wants to see the process began and completed during his lifetime. It does not mean that the results are going to be in favor of the candidate. It simply means that he wants the study NOW. That’s he’s right as the Pontiff.
In reality, if a person is in heaven, it makes no difference to them if they are never canonized or they are canonized 500 years after their death. They’re still in heaven. The process is for the good of the faithful, not the saint.
Some popes have canonized without a study, without a beatification, without proving any miracles. Gregory IX canonzied St. Anthony of Padua less than a year after his death and St. Francis of Assis 18 months after his death. Neither went through the process. Pope Gregory had been the Cardinal Protector of the Order during the life time of Anthony and Francis. He knew them personally and knew of their holiness. When he canonized Francis he stated in his decree that he believed the reports o the miracles, because those who reported them were reliable. He never put them tot he test. St. Clare was canonized by Honorius IV on the first anniversary of her death. Again, there was no study, not miracles and no beatification. Pope Honorius and he Vaticnan knew St. Francis and his sons and daughters well enough to conclude that Clare was a saint. There have been other saints like this.
I don’t think that the Holy Father wants to canonize John Paul without some kind of investigattion. However, he is rushing the committe not to drag their feet, but study these miraclss and submit them to him.
I hope this helps,
Br. JR, OSF
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