JP2 is not my hero anymore

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Steven Merten: We are indeed expected to give from what we have received; however, the 10% rule is part of the Law of Moses, and we are no longer under that Law, but grace. The New Testament, and I imagine, in one way or another, the Church, teach us to give in accordance with our income (1 Cor. 16:2, though this specific verse in addressed to a specific church and situation, the principle still applies), and I believe we should give until it hurts (look at the great importance the St. Paul gives alms giving in his writings)…but we are not legally bound to give exactly 10%. I think that many could probably afford to given more than this percentage…but others could not. (I get the impression that in the apostolic church, supporting those in poverty was a priority in the budget…).
 
Interesting thing about John Paul II…

Liberals hate and make fun of him.

Traditionalists hate and make fun of him.

Those two facts, when considered side by side, have long reinforced my belief that he is a great Pope.

I firmly believe that if the sexual abuse crisis had surfaced earlier in his pontificate, John Paul would have been all over those American bishops who so poorly handled the cases of abuse in their respective dioceses. I clearly remember the pictures and videos of JP scolding Fr. Ernesto Cardinales of Nicaragua for his support of the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. I can imagine that he would be doing the same to the errant bishops of our day…whether in the US or Europe. But now he is old, ill, and at the mercy (to some extent) of his aides. However, the vibrant Church in Africa and parts of Asia is so vibrant largely because of the leaders that John Paul selected to be in charge of those flocks…and we will be dependent on those countries to shepherd us in years to come, as is already beginning to happen now. (There are currently two African priests in residence in my parish.)

I Love you, John Paul II !! 👍
 
:tsktsk: The European Sickness:tsktsk:

Several years ago, a gunman killed several people at a town meeting in France. A town official blamed the event on what he called the importation of “American style” violence. Later, the shooter was captured, but was killed when he “fell”:banghead: out of an upper story window at the police station.

Yes, Gratias Grace, I see America’s faults. My problem is that Europe doesn’t seem to 🤓 see:nerd: their own faults, or when they do they just blame them on the USA.

To Diana:

Back in school in the late 80’s, a Protestant woman asked me why so many priests abused children. Where was a young :bounce: vibrant:bounce: JP2’s “unequivocal” response to the abuse back then?

To Chris93: You are right. Maybe, I am too pessimistic. Please pray for me.
 
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twf:
Steven Merten: We are indeed expected to give from what we have received; however, the 10% rule is part of the Law of Moses, and we are no longer under that Law, but grace.
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You say that Old testment people live under the Law but we live under grace. Jesus tells us that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in heaven. St Paul tells us if there were a way to heaven through the law then Christ’s death was pointless. There is no way to go to heaven accept through the blood of Jesus Christ. Abraham is in heaven through the same Grace of our Lord Jesus as Heaven bound Christians use. The way that Abraham loves God is through obedience to the law. Jesus tells us that the way Christians love God is through obedience to God’s law the Commandments. Jesus did not come to change the law. Jesus fulfilled the law so that Abraham and others who love God have an avenue to go to heaven. King David proclaims salvation in the Right Hand of God whom we know as our Lord Jesus Christ.

Everyone is lead into believing that there is a big difference between Old and New Testament; there is not. Please visit, Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Ever Lasting Life? geocities.com/athens/forum/3325/5a.htm

Be careful when you quote St. Paul that you do not throw out the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ who commands us to obey the law of Moses if we wish to go to heaven. The Protestants throw out Christ’s teaching for their interpetation of St. Paul’s writings.

NAB LUKE 13:28

And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.
NAB PSALMS 118:15

The joyful shout of victory in the tents of the just: “The right hand of the LORD has struck with power: The right hand of the LORD is exalted; the right hand of the LORD has struck with power.” I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD. Though the LORD has indeed chastised me, yet he has not delivered me to death. Open to me the gates of justice; I will enter them and give thanks to the LORD. This gate is the LORD’s; the just shall enter it. I will give thanks to you, for you have answered me and have been my savior. The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. By the LORD has this been done; it is wonderful in our eyes. This is the day the LORD has made; let us be glad and rejoice in it. O LORD, grant salvation! O LORD, grant prosperity! (MAT 21:42)

NAB GAL 2:21

I will not treat God’s gracious gift as pointless. If justice is available through the law, then Christ died to no purpose!
NAB MATTHEW 19:16

Another time a man came up to him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, "Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
I love our Pope, John Paul II. He is my hero and so was Mother Teresa. I think he is absolutely devastated with all the sex scandals everywhere and takes all of this upon his shoulders and offers this pain to God. Sometimes there is nothing left to do but to suffer on the cross when sin is rampant and no one is listening to the Word of God. John Paul is definitely suffering for the Church. Sounds like someone else I know.
 
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scaxter:
I love our Pope, John Paul II. He is my hero and so was Mother Teresa. I think he is absolutely devastated with all the sex scandals everywhere and takes all of this upon his shoulders and offers this pain to God. Sometimes there is nothing left to do but to suffer on the cross when sin is rampant and no one is listening to the Word of God. John Paul is definitely suffering for the Church. Sounds like someone else I know.
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Actually there is quite a bit more that Pope John Paul II could do to protect our Children. Pope John Paul II has a Church law of automatic excommunication upon anyone who lays hands on a Pope (Cannon 1370). The Pope also has a Church law which, I am told, automatically excommunicates anyone who leaves the Catholic Church (Cannon 1364). The Pope can throw down this Spiritually harmful punishment on anyone who knows of Cardinals, Bishops or Priests around the world who have knowledge of Child molester clergy and do not report it at once to state prosecutors or the press so that the state and the press can protect these children. Instead Pope John Paul denied American Bishops the power to even defrauk a child molester priest much less automatically excommunicate them or “hold sins bound” to punish them to deter them from harming our children.

If Pope John Paul II wants to show the world how Christ like forgiving he is he should abandon the protection he has for him self (Cannon 1370) rather than stopping American Bishops from protecting our children. How can the Pope demand that American Bishops be responsible for the protection of our Children when He holds back the Christ given Spirtual fire power for only himself to use?

Christ tells His Church (Apostolic Successors) that if Her hand is Her undoing She is to cut it off and throw it into Gehenna. Christ tells His Church that anyone whom they (Apostolic Successors) hold bound to their sins on earth, He (Jesus) will hold bound to their sins in heaven. Any one who Jesus holds bound to their sins in heaven, that person is cut off from the body of the Church and is cast into Gehenna. Please visit Throwing Stones to see what the Pope could do to protect our children. geocities.com/athens/forum/3325/stones.html

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
The Pope has a heart full of love, not only love for his dear children, but love for the enemy as well. If he can help all of them, including priests who have completely and shamefully disappointed him, he will. He is not God and we can all speculate on what he should/shouldn’t do, agree or not, but he is the “Papa” and he makes the decisions trying to do his best, even into serious sickness and unto his deathbed.

The media distorts so much, I wouldn’t rely on them for anything, not even our own Catholic liberal newspapers who distort and slant things their way. If you look at what the Pope has taught thoughout his years as Pope, you will see he has already taught such things as the “Theology of the Body” to teach ALL of us, and what does he get, disobedient, sinful, sick priests, divorced and remarried Catholics who have to leave the Church to get their own way in second marriages, homosexuals pushing the Church to “see it their way”, etc. In many ways, he HAS spoken before these crimes have happened, and who listens? No one. They all just keep living their sinful lives because we live in a “I want it my way and only my way society.” It takes human hearts at the grassroots level to want to change, not the Pope or George Bush “fixing” everything. Addressing crimes, yes, which is exactly what George Bush has done…so why all the scrutiny about him. Same with the Pope.
 
I may not agree with what the Pope does. But you have to keep in mind that he is doing the best he can. When I was in Rome you could walk through St. Peter’s Square and see that his office light was on well into the night. I was lucky enough to see the Pope. He IS Christ here on Earth NO MATTER what he does and we need to not only treat him with charity but with respect. Our Pope tries hard. Do you think you could do what is right all the time if you had terrible Vatican advisors, parkinson’s, and going on 80 something? Pray for him. I think way to many people complain about him when what they should be doing is praying. God Bless!

~Tradcat
 
Gratias Grace:
Stylteralmaldo, I am listening to link now. Try to download realplayer, then click at the link again. (Without realplayer you can’t listen).

Here is link to a web were you can download realplayer for free:
ewtn.com/radio/jukebox.htm

Good luck with the downloading!

G.G.
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Thanks for helping out Stylteralmaldo. I haven’t minding my past posts. :tsktsk:
 
To those who would condemn John Paul II I would like to say three things

1: Take some time and read his writings and then tell me he is not a Holy man.

2: Take some time and find out what he really has said about the priest scandal and other issues and not just take the spoon fed junk that out liberal anti-catholic press gives you.

3: Try walking in his shoes for a day and see if you could even be a third the man he is. That’s right I called him a man, because that what he is, not a saint, not a hero, but a man that someday maybe a saint.
 
Good for you USACATHOLIC!!

You’ve expressed many of my own thoughts concerning the political views coming out of the Vatican. There seems to be so much of talk of peace in the world without much consideration that peace involves more than just the absence of conflict. Beheadings, mass graves, rape, torture, genocide, all policies of certain governments and the terorrists. This is evil. Who will stand up to it? Shouldn’t the Church?
When the Church starts talking about more “temporal” matters, moral clarity sometimes seems to lacking. I’ve heard that we should remember that those at the Vatican are mostly Europeans, so there will sometimes be a different outlook on the world situation than those of us here in America.
 
I am convinced that from the historical perspective anyway, the Holy Father will be listed as the major figure of the second half of the 20th century, (Winston Churchill is my vote for the first half).
 
Re: the “prominence” of Cardinal Law’s new post, there are only 4 or 5 pontifical major basilicas in Rome. Being named archpriest of one is a huge honor. I chalk it up to the mindset, “He’s a cardinal, we have to put him SOMEWHERE.” But the business-as-usual mindset is exactly what has so many people upset about this appointment.
 
The sad legacy of JPII is that he continues to blame the outside world for problems, instead of seeking solutions from within the Church, itself.
 
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