JP2 is not my hero anymore

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Catholic Eagle:
Pray for the Pope but don’t adore him. Calling him a great Pope jsut because he is Pope does’t make you a good Catholic. A devotion to the Holy Father won’t get you into heaven. Call him “John Paul the Great we love you” will do nothing for you[except sometimes sin against the First commandment]. The people can’t call him an automatic saint just because they think that, that is theologically correct. Papolatry is not good for anyone. He is the Pope but he is not God. For the Pope to be the Pope he doesn’t have to be you hero. Anyway’s this Pope is no St.Pius V or St.Pius X. Pray that he becomes like them
I think he is already. Just because you dont agree with his methods or actions, doesn’t mean he isn’t holy.
 
Histrionics histrionics, enough of this. I unsubsribe to this thread.
 
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forgiveness:
It seems the Pope is in complete denial of the the hypocrisy of his comdemnation. What he should be focusing his attention on is acknowledging the hypocrisy it is being the Pope in the first place!

Simply being a member of the ‘Holy’ Order is hypocritical in itself. This is because the clergy function in a way that is completely against how Jesus commanded it should be. Instead of the greatest being the least, in their ‘Holy Order’, the greatest is the greatest: [Jn 20:24] the rulers lord it over them and their great men make their authority felt.

Apparantly they can’t see that in the first place that this in itself makes them a thoroughly un-Holy Order!

Also, they have refused to acknowledge that Jesus said [Mt 5:48] You must be as perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect. [Mt 1921] If you wish to be perfect, go and sell what you own and give the money to the poor. [Lk 16:19] None of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.

Whilst they lie indoors, the truly great in fact lie outside in the cold hard streets, where Jesus himself would be!

Havn’t they read [Lk 16:10] the man dishonest in little things will be dishonest in great. If you then cannot be trusted with money, that tainted thing, who will trust you with genuine riches?

(And there is that other ‘little’ thing which is the matter of the clergy referring to themselves as ‘Father’, when Jesus forbade it [Mt 23:9], but I’m sure I didn’t need to point that one out)

Don’t they know that [Mt 5:19] the man who infringes even the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be considered the least in the kingdom of heaven? That it would be better for them to have a millstone tied round their neck and be thrown into the sea?

You should not want to have anything to do with this Church, because like so many others, it is not founded in truth, though it professes to be so. They are like [Jn 23:27] whitewashed tombs, that look handsome from the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of corruption. [Jn 23:28] In the same way they seem like good honest men from the outside, but inside are full of hypocrist and lawlessness.
When you live and give to the Lord as Mother Teresa, Padrio Pio, and yes, even John Paul II, when you live on the street and give everything away, when you are no longer capable of sinning - then condemn the Church with your bible verses. The Truth is that the Bible was written by Catholics and the Catholic Church decided which books would be in the Bible and it is the Church that follows the Bible literally, and the Church that established the table of contents of the Bible. It is the Church that is the “pillar and bulwark of Truth”. It is upon the “rock” of Peter that Christ build his Church. Unless you eat of His body and blood, you have no life in you(John 6), and although salvation is a free give of God, we cannot fully receive this gift from faith alone outside of works (James 2:24).
 
Heros don’t take us to Heaven. Neither do speaking behind others bach. In the book “Witness to Hope” George Weigel says the following at page 3 (Prologe): “Those who have heard John Paul II groaning in prayer before morning Mass in his private chapel know that there is a dimention of Carol Wojtyla’s life in wich God in his sole companion and interlocutor, in a convertion literally beyond words.”

This is a man who is to be understood from inside. He is a great man. I think to understand a bit more of him, the best one can do, is to read a bit polish history: Why don’t start with the book mentioned above? Karol Wojtyla (John Paul II) was born on the 18. of may 1920 in Poland. In august 1920 the Sovjet Red Army could have destroyed both the future pope and his people: "Only poles and proffesional historians remember the 1920 Battle of Vistula, or, as pious poles insist, The “Miracle of the Vistula”(p.17 - “Witness to Hope”)

Here is a link to The church the pope used to visit as a boy. He lived almost next to it. What I want to show you is not an answere to all your questions about if the pope has done this or that, but it tells something aboute the catholic Poland wich is a part of the inside of the pope.

The people using this church as their parish church has got gold from wedding rings or other gold of their ancestors melted to make a golden crown for Virgin Mary:

bazylika.wadowice.pl/

God Bless!

G.G.
 
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forgiveness:
It seems the Pope is in complete denial of the the hypocrisy of his comdemnation. What he should be focusing his attention on is acknowledging the hypocrisy it is being the Pope in the first place!
‘Forgivness’, from your post it is easy to see that you are NOT a catholic.

Well, if catholic people want to stay in your company, deniing the pope, it’s their decition.

I will not betray Jesus Christ and his Church: The Roman Catholic Church with John Paul II in Peters chair!

(Please excuse any spellingmistakes. English is not my first language).

G.G.
 
It’s really easy to sit here at your computer and find fault with the Pope and everything in the church, but not many of us will ever get a chance to be in their shoes, and really know how things are. We are all human beings, and all of us are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. That’s why Christ instituted His Church, to help us along the road. None of us are perfect and that includes me and everybody on these forums. I do respect the Pope, and I hope the next one will be as good a shepard as John Paul 2 has. Blessed Mother pray for us.
 
Blood Rain:
If you have the means listen to the archived CAL with Christine Mugridge on June 4 She did and beautiful job explaining the situation with Law and also what the Holy Father went through because of the sexual abuse. She described him being nearly on his deathbed because of it…
Unfortunately, I can’t get your link to work. If you check the link and repost, I’ll try again. Thanks.
 
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Stylteralmaldo:
Unfortunately, I can’t get your link to work. If you check the link and repost, I’ll try again. Thanks.
Stylteralmaldo, I am listening to link now. Try to download realplayer, then click at the link again. (Without realplayer you can’t listen).

Here is link to a web were you can download realplayer for free:
ewtn.com/radio/jukebox.htm

Good luck with the downloading!

G.G.
 
Making judgments on externals might also be unfair. How do we know what JP2 has said privately to Cardinal Law? What kind of communication has taken place between the two? Perhaps he has been reprimanded and punished, but privately. What other communication has taken place between JP2 and other offenders? We don’t see everything that goes on. It’s very easy to sit in judgment of a situation that isn’t totally visible.
 
Thats correct…and the Church needs to realize that WE as FOLLOWERS…who try to be LOYAL, NEED to KNOW what is going on. Ever hear the saying…actions speak louder than words? When all we get is inaction, or actions that serve to CONFUSE the faithful as to WHERE our LEADERS are COMING FROM, then we need WORDS to CLARIFY. I dont need to know exactly what JPII said to Law…nor do I need to know the penance (if any…that was given) but I DO need to know and HEAR (especially in light of silence but visible confusing actions) that the man has REPRIMANDED…did we get that at least? If so…I stand corrected and apologize…if not…than all I see is a PROMOTION of a scourolous dog who should have had his hat handed to him, shown the door and/or thrown in prison.
 
Blood Rain:
If you have the means listen to the archived CAL with Christine Mugridge on June 4 She did and beautiful job explaining the situation with Law and also what the Holy Father went through because of the sexual abuse. She described him being nearly on his deathbed because of it. I needed to hear that. That’s what I expected from my spiritual father/hero.
"She described him being nearly on his deathbed because of it".

Yes, Blood Rain, the pope was nearly on his deathbed because of the scandal! We, here in Europe, has known that all the time (since the scandal became topic). If America don’t know that, it’s time to wake up.

The sex-scandal nearly broke the popes heart! Thanks to God he is still alive!

Thank you very much for the link to archived radio-program. It was worth the time listening. I hope many, many take the time to listen. In the program it’s mentiond that it is best to look at the referances (were critiques of pope are coming from), are they secular or of any known anti-pope spirit?

We have good reason to be proud of beieng catholic and to be proud of our pope!

FEAR NOT!

amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0836282906/qid=1089317407/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-6002018-1026256?v=glance&s=books

God Bless!

G.G.
 
Faithful 2 Rome, are you still “faithful to Rome?”

Just wondering.
 
I sure am…I am faithful to all the teachings of the church and recognize the pope as the leader…but that doesnt mean I dont have given up the right to question my leaders on matters outside of church teaching. I came to accept the faith thru reason and questioning…my obedience does not make me nor should it make anyone an automaton who blindly accepts and doesnt question things outside of teachings and dogmas. Some here think that the pope shouldnt be questioned at all… THAT is wrong. I said before…if at least I KNEW WHY certain things are done, I would probably agree…but for people to think one can only go “so far” in WHOM to question…ie…well…we can question our priests…our bishops…but NEVER the Pope…or his right hand men…that is absurd. Now I know the man is sick and ailed, and cant do what he did 20 years ago… Popes are not infallible on opinion…and we have a right to question…if you wanna say, well I dont care what he does, he’s my leader…then you do that…I am about learning and understanding the WHY of things…my BLIND FAITH is in Christ, my REASONING FAITH is in ROME. I need the two to make a whole. THAT is what helps ME stay rooted AND defend my faith when attacked…
 
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OhioBob:
JPII is not trying to be our hero. He is trying to be our Pope. And as our Pope, I think he has been a true gift from God.

Blessings.
Good point, perhaps North American celebrity mentality creeps in on us when we think of the Pope.
 
Faithful 2 Rome:
I sure am…I am faithful to all the teachings of the church and recognize the pope as the leader…but that doesnt mean I dont have given up the right to question my leaders on matters outside of church teaching.

Now I know the man is sick and ailed, and cant do what he did 20 years ago…

I need the two to make a whole. THAT is what helps ME stay rooted AND defend my faith when attacked…
Of course you have the right to make questions! Questions (if related to case and to what matters in reality) are what helps us not being robots and helps us KNOW where other people THINK they know.

But I think it is extremley important to understand, in the case of JPII, that there are people who hate him and want to spread false information about him. When good catholics go in the snares laid out by JPII’s enemies, they help weaken the catholic faith in the eyes of non-catholic population all over the world.

"And yet, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?" (Luke 18-8)

Question the ref. when someone try to drag JPII into dirt. Of course you don’t have to agree on everything he says or does, but may be it would be wise to ask the following question before you choose to agree or disagree: "What can be the deeper meaning for JPII (doing or saying this or that) in the TOTAL context he is working in to spread the Evangelium?

In spite of his high age and in spite of his sickness, he still has a scedule that would be difficult for a 40 year old to keep up with.

Read polish history (you will start to know the pope form inside) and read what he has written.

I am glad you defend faith. Hope you will find more here (if you not already know this link) to help you defend faith. 👍 It is difficult for us all when attacked. :whacky: For the time being it seems like some kind of sport to attack catholics. :eek: May be that “sport” is rooted in that it hurts to know truuth. May be they are afraid of us :bigyikes: , and that’s why they attack?

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/index.htm

Best wishes and God Bless! :angel1: ❤️ :getholy:

G.G.
 
Faithful 2 Rome:
I sure am…I am faithful to all the teachings of the church and recognize the pope as the leader…but that doesnt mean I dont have given up the right to question my leaders on matters outside of church teaching. I came to accept the faith thru reason and questioning…my obedience does not make me nor should it make anyone an automaton who blindly accepts and doesnt question things outside of teachings and dogmas. Some here think that the pope shouldnt be questioned at all… THAT is wrong. I said before…if at least I KNEW WHY certain things are done, I would probably agree…but for people to think one can only go “so far” in WHOM to question…ie…well…we can question our priests…our bishops…but NEVER the Pope…or his right hand men…that is absurd. Now I know the man is sick and ailed, and cant do what he did 20 years ago… Popes are not infallible on opinion…and we have a right to question…if you wanna say, well I dont care what he does, he’s my leader…then you do that…I am about learning and understanding the WHY of things…my BLIND FAITH is in Christ, my REASONING FAITH is in ROME. I need the two to make a whole. THAT is what helps ME stay rooted AND defend my faith when attacked…
The reason why I asked you if you were still “faithful to Rome” is that some of your posts seemed a little angry to me. I realize that it’s hard to know exactly how a person feels when the posts are short and you can’t see body language or hear the tone of voice. So many posters are just lurkers who try to bait people just to cause annoyance. I’m glad, Faithful2Rome, that your posts stem from a love of Christ and His Church. I hope you continue your quest and that your love will continue to grow for Him. Jesus can use spiritual soldiers like you in His troops! A well-educated Catholic can do much to bring the love of Christ to the world. The whole reason for everything is to follow Jesus…and we need modern day “prophets” as members of His body who seek to know His will.

Keep up the good work for Him. 👍 👍

Mary

“The patient man shows much good sense, but the quick-tempered man displays folly at its height.” (Proverbs 14:29)

“A mild answer calms wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.”
(Proverbs 15:1)
 
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Trad_Catholic:
He is not the great. The Church deems who is “the Great” and he is not only not deemed such but he is far from it.
I wish you peace… you could surely use some… 👍
 
Gratias Grace:
But I think it is extremley important to understand, in the case of JPII, that there are people who hate him and want to spread false information about him. When good catholics go in the snares laid out by JPII’s enemies, they help weaken the catholic faith in the eyes of non-catholic population all over the world.

.
I agree completely with this - we need to lift up and edify our Pope for the great things that he has done - sure, we can criticize - but, if we were fair as loyal Catholics, our crticism would be about 2% of the time and our edification would be 98%.
Also, criticism is best done internally and not out in public.
 
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Brad:
I agree completely with this - we need to lift up and edify our Pope for the great things that he has done - sure, we can criticize - but, if we were fair as loyal Catholics, our crticism would be about 2% of the time and our edification would be 98%.
Also, criticism is best done internally and not out in public.
Your statement sounds so good. The only problem is that it does not work. Freedom of public Speach is not a bad thing; it is a very good thing. Our Church can grow strong by incorporating Freedom of Speach into our system.

In all honesty what do you think was a more effective tool for protecting our children from Church clergy sexual predators? Was it 30 years of the Church spending hundreds of millions of dollars in hush money and secretely moving Church clergy sexual predators from unsuspecting loyal Catholic parish to unsuspecting loyal Catholic parish? Or was it a few months of American Freedom of Speach after the Boston Globe blew the Church clergy sexual predator issue wide open in full site of the world. I feel my children are far more protected by wide open Freedom of Speach than decades of worrying about edification of Church policies.

The Church did change It’s policies on charging for indulgences in order to pay for and build St. Peter’s Basilica. Had there been an avenue of Freedom of Speach in the Church, possibly the Reformation would have been averted.

I think it was Pope Innocence who prclaimed that anyone dying in battle, killing Muslims in the Crucades, automatically went to heaven. It would be nice to know that we could freely speak out against such a papal statement in St. Peter’s Square, if it were procalimed from the papacy today.

Thank you God for using the Boston Globe to protect our children from Church policy! Maybe some day Pope John Paul II will thank God for the Boston Globe and American Freedom of Speach who accomplished this great mission of protection of our children which he was incapable of accomplishing.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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