JPII Addresses Ecumenical Conversion of the Heart

[HagiaSophia]

Without prayer and “inner conversion” there can be no true ecumenism, says John Paul II.

The Pope made that point today at the general audience as he took note of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, which started Tuesday. …he theme presented for meditation this year by the World Council of Churches and the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity is “Christ, the Only Foundation of the Church.”

The Holy Father called the theme “a fundamental truth for all ecumenical commitment.”

Quoting Vatican II, he explained: "Given that the reconciliation of Christians surpasses human powers and capacities, prayer gives expression to hope that does not disappoint, to trust in the Lord who makes all things new.

“But prayer must be accompanied by purification of the mind, the feelings and the memory. Thus it becomes an expression of that ‘inner conversion,’ without which there is no true ecumenism.”

“In a word,” John Paul II said, “unity is a gift of God, a gift to be tirelessly implored with humility and truth.”

The Holy Father sounded optimistic, saying that the “desire for unity is spreading and deepening, touching new environments and contexts, arousing fervor for works, initiatives and reflections.”

“Recently the Lord has also enabled his disciples to engage in important contacts of dialogue and collaboration. The pain of separation is felt with ever greater intensity, given the challenges of a world that awaits a clear and unanimous evangelical testimony on the part of all believers in Christ,” he said. …"

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=64995

 

[HagiaSophia]

To advance on the path toward unity between Catholics and Orthodox, both John Paul II and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople are trying to relaunch theological dialogue.

Monsignor Eleuterio Fortino, undersecretary of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, mentioned this intention in today’s Italian edition of L’Osservatore Romano when assessing relations between the ecumenical patriarchate and the Holy See.

Over the past year, these relations have undergone an “intense change,” thanks to two visits of Bartholomew I to Rome – on June 29, and again on Nov. 27, when he received the relics of Sts. John Chrysostom and Gregory Nazianzen from the Pope.

This last event, Bartholomew I told Vatican Radio, was the most important in his ministry as patriarch.

Also fostering the climate of good understanding was the Nov. 30 visit to the patriarchate, on behalf of the Holy Father, of a Vatican delegation headed by Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

These contacts have served to calm the tensions that arose with the Orthodox Patriarchate of Moscow and later that of Constantinople, after the Greek-Catholic Church of Ukraine requested recognition by the Holy See as a new patriarchate. For the time being, the Pope has not acquiesced to this request, said Monsignor Fortino.

To overcome the millennium-long schism between Catholics and Orthodox, Monsignor Fortino believes that one of the necessary steps is the re-establishment of theological dialogue between the two sides.

This dialogue is carried out through a mixed commission made up of representatives of the Catholic Church and various Orthodox Churches. The commission’s work has been blocked since the meeting held in Baltimore, Maryland, in 2000, when clear divisions arose over the topic under consideration: “Theological and Canonical Implications of Uniatism.”

The question of “Uniatism” – the Orthodox derisively call “Uniates” those Christians of the Eastern rite who keep their spirituality and liturgy but are united to the Pope – has become especially acute with the Moscow Patriarchate, which views with mistrust the resurgence of Greek-Catholic communities that had suffered under the Communist regimes in Eastern Europe.

During Bartholomew I’s visit to John Paul II last June 29, both signed a joint declaration committing themselves to reactivate the commission’s work.

In this connection, the patriarch, who has the right of initiative and coordination for pan-Orthodox issues, now needs to obtain the support of the other Orthodox Churches that have representatives in the commission.

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=65063

 

[CrusaderNY]

Ok then, what on your end and the Patriarch, as the schimstics who left the church some 1000 years ago, what are you going to give up to come back into the fold? Is it not the Orthodox who dont even acknowledge the Pope or his authority, so why all the eupohoria over JPIi, do you expect him to give in more to you and the other schismatics?

HagiaSophia:

To advance on the path toward unity between Catholics and Orthodox, both John Paul II and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople are trying to relaunch theological dialogue.

Monsignor Eleuterio Fortino, undersecretary of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, mentioned this intention in today’s Italian edition of L’Osservatore Romano when assessing relations between the ecumenical patriarchate and the Holy See.

Over the past year, these relations have undergone an “intense change,” thanks to two visits of Bartholomew I to Rome – on June 29, and again on Nov. 27, when he received the relics of Sts. John Chrysostom and Gregory Nazianzen from the Pope.

This last event, Bartholomew I told Vatican Radio, was the most important in his ministry as patriarch.

Also fostering the climate of good understanding was the Nov. 30 visit to the patriarchate, on behalf of the Holy Father, of a Vatican delegation headed by Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

These contacts have served to calm the tensions that arose with the Orthodox Patriarchate of Moscow and later that of Constantinople, after the Greek-Catholic Church of Ukraine requested recognition by the Holy See as a new patriarchate. For the time being, the Pope has not acquiesced to this request, said Monsignor Fortino.

To overcome the millennium-long schism between Catholics and Orthodox, Monsignor Fortino believes that one of the necessary steps is the re-establishment of theological dialogue between the two sides.

This dialogue is carried out through a mixed commission made up of representatives of the Catholic Church and various Orthodox Churches. The commission’s work has been blocked since the meeting held in Baltimore, Maryland, in 2000, when clear divisions arose over the topic under consideration: “Theological and Canonical Implications of Uniatism.”

The question of “Uniatism” – the Orthodox derisively call “Uniates” those Christians of the Eastern rite who keep their spirituality and liturgy but are united to the Pope – has become especially acute with the Moscow Patriarchate, which views with mistrust the resurgence of Greek-Catholic communities that had suffered under the Communist regimes in Eastern Europe.

During Bartholomew I’s visit to John Paul II last June 29, both signed a joint declaration committing themselves to reactivate the commission’s work.

In this connection, the patriarch, who has the right of initiative and coordination for pan-Orthodox issues, now needs to obtain the support of the other Orthodox Churches that have representatives in the commission.

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=65063

 

[HagiaSophia]

CrusaderNY:

Ok then, what on your end and the Patriarch, as the schimstics who left the church some 1000 years ago, what are you going to give up to come back into the fold? Is it not the Orthodox who dont even acknowledge the Pope or his authority, so why all the eupohoria over JPIi, do you expect him to give in more to you and the other schismatics?

I am in the fold, I am not coming back to it - the Pope has expressed firm instructions, regarding ecumenical and interreligious relations between the churches. It may not be your personal wishes but he’s made it clear that the Roman Catholic Church is fully and wholly committed to these ends.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Code: ZE05011607
Date: 2005-01-16
“Significant Gestures” of Ecumenical Dialogue Urged
VATICAN CITY, JAN. 16, 2005 (Zenit.org).- John Paul II encouraged “significant gestures” of ecumenical dialogue on the eve of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

“I invite every community to offer significant gestures of meeting and ecumenical dialogue and to implore God for the gift of full unity among all the disciples of Christ,” the Pope said in today’s Angelus address.

The Week of Prayer, which will be observed in most countries Jan. 18-25, has as its theme, “Christ, Only Foundation of the Church.”

 

[MrS]

HagiaSophia:

I am in the fold, I am not coming back to it - the Pope has expressed firm instructions, regarding ecumenical and interreligious relations between the churches. It may not be your personal wishes but he’s made it clear that the Roman Catholic Church is fully and wholly committed to these ends.

From what I have read of your posts, I think you are too.

I can only pray that ecumenism results in those outside the Catholic Church being drawn toward it… many to the point of joining. I hope I am alive to see discipline return. For now, I trust in the Holy Spirit to know why it seems to be so absent… it is almost an internal ecumenism.

As for comprimises…some are warrented perhaps. But which ones. Using Cardinal Kasper as an envoy is a red (or at least pink) flag for me.

 

[CrusaderNY]

With all due respect to our Holy Father, he has erred on this entire subject of ecumenism, as have our council fathers. He can keep putting out those quotes, but the laity does not buy into it, as we know we are the One True Church. Eventually either he or his successor will go to far, and the laity will rise up, as they are now. I was watching a talk show on EWTN last night and the people were asking the priest what exactly is going on with the teaching in the catholic schools today. And when you get something like what happened below, which was spearheaded by the Vatican, the people are not going to allow it, that is why there are many like me who are there to let them know what is really going on, as the average person at mass every sunday does not know what is going on at the Vatican or Fatima, but they are starting to take notice and this was an extreme embarrassment, and in 2007 if this guitar shaped shrine opens and Hindus are there, there will be a price to pay I am sure for that

**The *Zenit ***Report

Zenit news posted on January 1 the article “What is Happening in Fatima?” in which the alleged plan to turn Fatima into an Interfaith Shrine was discussed. The article contained various falsehoods, mostly coming from Shrine Rector Msgr. Guerra.

http://www.oltyn.com/Buddhist.jpgA**** Buddhist at the pan-religious 2003 Fatima
Fatima Congeess invites members of the
audience to visit the Zenkoji Buddhist Shrine
in Japan. Fatima Shrine Rector Msgr. Guerra
stated at this Fatima Congress, “…we rejoice
in the brotherly presence of the representatives
of the various spiritudal schools and we are
sure that their presence here opened the way
for a greater future openness of thes Shrine;
[a] Shrine that seems already vocationed,
thanks to Divine Providence, for contacts
and for dialogue.”"

Reporter Delia Gallagher said that Zenit received a three-page fax from Bishop Serafim de Sousa Ferreira e Silva (written in Portuguese) dated December 28, in which the Shrine Rector at Fatima alleged that Father Nicholas Gruner was responsible for the original November 1 *Portugal News *report “Fatima to Become an Interfaith Shrine”.

“It is our conviction”, said Fatima Shrine Rector Msgr. Guerra, “that the article in Portugal News has been guided by some members of the group led by Father Nicholas Gruner”. Msgr. Guerra’s assumption was completely false. I can state categorically that Father Gruner has absolutely no connection with Portugal News and is in no way responsible for the November 1 report.

I attended the Fatima Interfaith Congress at the request of Father Gruner’s organization and filed my own report on Father Gruner’s web page “Fatima to Become an Interfaith Shrine? An Account from One Who Was There”.1 It was also published in the December 2003 issue of Catholic Family News.

In that report, I quote the Portugal News article, and I also quote a local newspaper from Fatima, Noticias de Fatima, that ran the headline “Sanctuary for Various Creeds”. But absolutely no one from Father Gruner’s organization had anything to do with the articles appearing in the Portugal News and Notícias de Fátima.

*Zenit *also claimed that Father Gruner was involved with the “We Resist You to the Face” statement. This is not true. The Resistance statement was a collaboration between Atila Sinke Guimarães, Michael Matt, Marian Horvat and myself. Father Gruner did not know of or read the “We Resist You to the Face” statement until after it was first published in the May 30, 2000 issue of The Remnant.

HagiaSophia:

Code: ZE05011607

Date: 2005-01-16
“Significant Gestures” of Ecumenical Dialogue Urged
VATICAN CITY, JAN. 16, 2005 (Zenit.org).- John Paul II encouraged “significant gestures” of ecumenical dialogue on the eve of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

“I invite every community to offer significant gestures of meeting and ecumenical dialogue and to implore God for the gift of full unity among all the disciples of Christ,” the Pope said in today’s Angelus address.

The Week of Prayer, which will be observed in most countries Jan. 18-25, has as its theme, “Christ, Only Foundation of the Church.”

 

[JKirkLVNV]

***Ok then, what on your end and the Patriarch, as the schimstics who left the church some 1000 years ago, what are you going to give up to come back into the fold? Is it not the Orthodox who dont even acknowledge the Pope or his authority, so why all the eupohoria over JPIi, do you expect him to give in more to you and the other schismatics?/***QUOTE]

From his or her posts (esp. the one in which he/she calls the Holy Father his or her “catechist” and does such a stunning job of defending ecumenism from a RC view point, ie., JP “casting his net into deep water”), I have always assumed Hagia Sophia was Catholic. Hagia Sophia is just Greek for “Holy Wisdom,” it doesn’t have to refer to Justinian’s church.

 

[CrusaderNY]

She/He is Orthodox, look at all of the strings started by this person, they are loaded in favor of the Orthodox, and I question the merits of non-Catholics casting more confusion into the waters which already exists. Why would a non Catholic NOT be in favor of ecumenism? I Love and respect our Holy Father, but he is, on this subject like Jimmy Carter was on dealing with the Soviets.

JKirkLVNV:

Ok then, what on your end and the Patriarch, as the schimstics who left the church some 1000 years ago, what are you going to give up to come back into the fold? Is it not the Orthodox who dont even acknowledge the Pope or his authority, so why all the eupohoria over JPIi, do you expect him to give in more to you and the other schismatics?/

QUOTE]

From his or her posts (esp. the one in which he/she calls the Holy Father his or her “catechist” and does such a stunning job of defending ecumenism from a RC view point, ie., JP “casting his net into deep water”), I have always assumed Hagia Sophia was Catholic. Hagia Sophia is just Greek for “Holy Wisdom,” it doesn’t have to refer to Justinian’s church.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Did she tell you that?

 

[HagiaSophia]

MrS:

From what I have read of your posts, I think you are too.

MrS:

to the point of joining. I hope I am alive to see discipline return. For now, I trust in the Holy Spirit to know why it seems to be so absent… it is almost an internal ecumenism.

I would say that JPII felt that part of his election was his pledge to continue implementing what the bishops and council as a whole expressed in these matters. - based on the doors opened by John XXIII and Paul VI.

MrS:

As for comprimises…some are warrented perhaps. But which ones. Using Cardinal Kasper as an envoy is a red (or at least pink) flag for me.

As the deacon mentioned in one of his posts, there are so many groups that the “alliances” will vary with each of them I think.

Insofar as Kaspar and Lehmann are concerned - I share your view - I also was not fond of Cassidy or Fitzgerald who preceded him - hopefully we shall see better understanding and on a more positive note when the personality representing the pope is not such a divisive one. To me Kaspar carries too much “baggage” and while the other two kept busy at it, I never got much from them in explaining things to their own church.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Well, I like her posts. According to JPII, she belongs to the other lung…but then you don’t agree with the Holy Father.

 

[HagiaSophia]

CrusaderNY:

With all due respect to our Holy Father, he has erred on this entire subject of ecumenism, as have our council fathers.

Well since he’s running the church vs someone like yourself so deeply experienced in not only ecumenism but church governance, I think I’ll go with he Pope.

CrusaderNY:

He can keep putting out those quotes, but the laity does not buy into it, as we know we are the One True Church.

Please do not confuse yourself and a few friends with the entire body of the laity. It truly exceeds your authority when you attempt to do so.

CrusaderNY:

Eventually either he or his successor will go to far, and the laity will rise up, as they are now.

I am personally unaware of any “uprising” against John Paul II. In fact I would say he is one of the world’s most beloved religious figures in both Catholic and non Catholic circles.

CrusaderNY:

I was watching a talk show on EWTN last night and the people were asking the priest what exactly is going on with the teaching in the catholic schools today.

I do not confuse one school, one schjool district or other aberrrations in the church as “mainstream”. There are many things which needs correcting, many bishops who have not fulfilled their obligations properly and many religious who try to run a do it yourself church and call it Catholic. This does not comprise what the Pope teaches or expects. Parents shoud be vigilant and involved.

CrusaderNY:

And when you get something like what happened below, which was spearheaded by the Vatican, the people are not going to allow it,

You appear to have a need to post the Fatima Shrine event almost on a weekly basis. There was a full discussion of this in another thread, the corrective measures and current status were made known to you and it is fruitless to redo another thread in this one.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I always read your posts and think “Go, Hagia, it’s your birthday, make it special…”, something I picked up from watching TV during a particularly unedifying portion of one summer.

 

[HagiaSophia]

JKirkLVNV:

From his or her posts (esp. the one in which he/she calls the Holy Father his or her “catechist” and does such a stunning job of defending ecumenism from a RC view point, ie., JP “casting his net into deep water”), I have always assumed Hagia Sophia was Catholic.

You have assumed correctly and I don’t recall if you were in the threads where what Catholics choose to be called came up - I felt it became rather clear what I preferred to be called.

JKirkLVNV:

Hagia Sophia is just Greek for “Holy Wisdom,” it doesn’t have to refer to Justinian’s church.

No point in explaining; as the Good Book says, “let him who has ears hear”. - some simply cannot. - the OP didn’t have a clue what it was anyway. (Actually I chose my name because that particular church played a very important part in my life.)

Ecumenism and interrleligious relationships terrify some people. We are all in different stages in going to the places the Church is taking us. We will all hopefully get there in the end.

Again I thank you for your kind words.

 

[HagiaSophia]

JKirkLVNV:

I always read your posts and think “Go, Hagia, it’s your birthday, make it special…”, something I picked up from watching TV during a particularly unedifying portion of one summer.

I needed that I can tell you---- (sitting on hands)

 

[HagiaSophia]

JKirkLVNV:

Did she tell you that?

Here is precisely what I said:

“I do not have to “prove” anything; I simply state that not only am I a member of the church which follows John Paul II as pope I wholly support his efforts toward ecumenical relations. And after reading your quotes (above), I find that I am in rather good company.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=33022 #21 (Post #21)

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

HagiaSophia:

Code: ZE05011607
Date: 2005-01-16
“Significant Gestures” of Ecumenical Dialogue Urged
VATICAN CITY, JAN. 16, 2005 (Zenit.org).- John Paul II encouraged “significant gestures” of ecumenical dialogue on the eve of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

“I invite every community to offer significant gestures of meeting and ecumenical dialogue and to implore God for the gift of full unity among all the disciples of Christ,” the Pope said in today’s Angelus address.

The Week of Prayer, which will be observed in most countries Jan. 18-25, has as its theme, “Christ, Only Foundation of the Church.”

Fascinating! Have the Peter is the rock arguments become just too embarrassing for the bishops at these ecumenical meetings?

The Pope is certainly making a “significant gesture” which will be appreciated by the non-Roman Catholics.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Fr Ambrose:

Fascinating! Have the Peter is the rock arguments become just too embarrassing for the bishops at these ecumenical meetings?

The Pope is certainly making a “significant gesture” which will be appreciated by the non-Roman Catholics.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Fr Ambrose:

Fascinating! Have the Peter is the rock arguments become just too embarrassing for the bishops at these ecumenical meetings?

Don’t tease me, you’ll cause this thread to levitate all on its own!

Seriously, he has expressed several times his uinderstanding that the “papacy” as we understand it, will be a different one insofar as the Orthodox are concerned - what? is still the question I believe. I think that the article from last year on Pottmayer and Vatican I is going to be the basis for an initiating document
Fr Ambrose:

The Pope is certainly making a “significant gesture” which will be appreciated by the non-Roman Catholics.

I hope so - I was cheered by the post on the Pope & Bartholomew---- Alsohoping you will make a contribution in the Communion and Reception thread.l