JPII's Quote: "Be not afraid.", Ben. XVI's new quote

  • Thread starter Thread starter FiremanFrank
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
jimmy
Did he really say that? I would love to quote him on that.
NO Jim…

HE DID NOT SAY THAT!

Gee, I better be a little more careful here (or else I will be getting a letter from the Vatican!)
 
Ahhh - but we must be mindful that since Jesus never taught with a stick, neither will the successor of Peter.

Pope Benedict will teach the world the meaning of Truth, but he will do it with tremendous love and compassion.

Some parents beat or spank their children into compliance and such children can and do grow up ok. However, it is even better when the parent maintains self control and uses the power of love to discipline them. And, I might add, he has the Holy Spirit on his side.

We must not stand by idling, hoping to watch the great rod come down on the behinds of our wayward Catholic brethren. Rather, we must pray daily and pray hard that the Lord will soften the hearts of those who need it most so that they will hear the Pontiff’s loving message - to follow Truth.

Be a Co-Worker of Truth by praying for him and for those who need it. Teach with love and compassion, not the stick.

:blessyou:
 
FiremanFrank said:
NO Jim…

HE DID NOT SAY THAT!

Gee, I better be a little more careful here (or else I will be getting a letter from the Vatican!)

Too bad, I would love to quote it.
 
Sorry Diane & John,

But you seem to be part of that unusual strain of Christian whose theology has evidently become severely lopsided. You see, God is both Merciful AND Just. But people such as yourselves always seem to remember the former - while conveniently forgetting the latter.

You also do not express Jesus teaching correctly (or in full) when you state “Jesus never taught with a stick”. To those who defiled the Temple, He did in fact “teach with a stick”. That much is clear.

And so it is again today, that we find His Church has become “defiled” by those obstinate and wishy-washy heterodox who are in fact dividing our Church and misleading the masses.

No wonder then, that God has chosen BXVI as the one who will again be forced to “over turn the tables in the temple”. For proof of that, you need look no further than than the actions/writings of the man who is now BXVI.

So don’t say then, that nobody hadn’t warned you ahead of time.

Enjoy …

Fr. Frank Pavone
National Director, Priests for Life


God always blesses His Church with the type of leader it needs at each time in history.

Some see enforcing doctrinal orthodoxy as perhaps in tension with reaching out … to unite and welcome all humanity into the arms of the loving Savior. But the roles are closer to each other than one may think … It is only when one presents the truth, in all its fullness, vigor, and clarity, that one can be pastoral.

To “shepherd” the flock includes shepherding them into the truth, and Cardinal Ratzinger has had a special gift for precisely that.

Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion.
General Principles

by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

2. The Church teaches that abortion or euthanasia is a grave sin …… Christians have a "grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law.
4. … the minister of Holy Communion may find himself in the situation where he must refuse to distribute Holy Communion to someone,
6. When … the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, "the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it"

**CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS
TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS


**4. There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family …. Under no circumstances can they be approved".(4)

Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts "as a serious depravity… (cf.* Rom* 1:24-27;* 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim *1:10).

In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty.
 
fireman,

I am confused, who exactly are you charging with the label “heterodox?”
 
TPJCatholic
"who exactly are you charging with the label heterodox"
???

Interesting choice of words there TP …

But now I’m somewhat confused as to what ***you ***mean ! LOL

But here, please allow me to attempt to clarify myself a bit.

First off TP,*** I charge*** no one. I simply make observations on what people have said (or don’t say), based on:
  • My personal studies in Catholicism and on Catholic Apologetics
  • My training that I’ve received in a 2 year diocesan “Formation for Heresy” … errr, I mean “Formation for Ministry” Program
  • Several years of training from my studies in the diaconate
  • A number of years writing for a local Catholic watchdog newsletter (Coalition of Concerned Cathloics)
And over a decade of experiences gained in and around all of the above mentioned activites.

That said, I ascribe the name heterodox to those Catholics who:

Knowingly (or unknowningly - but nevertheless are still responsible) misrepresent Church Teaching, Church History, or the Traditions of the Church, while at the same time favoring a viewpoint that fits none of the above valid sources for Teaching/Revelation.

When someone here offered a false observation which suggested that if one has to (spiritually) “beat or spank their children”, that then the Holy Spirit would not/could not be part of that action - then that is in error. Plain and simple TP.

As God has often had to use more “stringent” methods to get His people to wake up from their slumber (myself included!). And from all of my experiences, this kind of talk has come in great quantities from those “wishy-washy heterodox” types who fail to look at both sides of the spiritual battlefield. And make no mistake my friends, a battlefield it most certainly is.

So both prayer AND action might (or should) be required. We may exclude neither from God’s Will. Both can be done in Love. But unfortuneately, that person (to whom I hold absolutely no personal grudge/animosity) has given us the misconception that Love can not be part of the more forceful corrective nature of God. Well my friends, it most certainly can.

And that person went on then, to imply that Benedict XVI would never rightfully behave in such a spiritually “forceful and/or corrective” manner.

TOTAL HOGWASH!

For he has in fact already proven to us many, many times before, that he ***has ***embraced such qualities into his pastoral life. And a good thing too, or else today we would have even more derelict “Catholic” theologians/teachers than we are currently having to deal with now.

So, giving people the idea that prayer (w/o it’s sometime very much needed administrative actions) is always the right way to go - this is a very dangerous idea indeed.

That is not how our Church runs, functions, or expresses Herself.

Never has. And as spiritual “tough love” must sometimes occur in our own family life, so then must it often manifest itself in the life of our Church as well. This is a fact.

Well, was that what you were looking for TP?
 
fireman,

Well, actually no, your reply has much detail, yet seems to miss the point of my question. If there are specific cases of people on this board exhibiting heterodoxy, then please bring that to full attention so we may have a thorough discussion. I feel just about everyone here would define themselves as being orthodox Catholics, yet you seem to not agree with that. Soooo, spit it out, tell us where you think this straying from orthodoxy has happened.
 
TPJCatholic

fireman,
Well, actually no, your reply has much detail, yet seems to miss the point of my question.
Ummm, I know my post was a littlle long TP, but did you actually read it my friend?

Beause the answer WAS there buddy, but I’ll re-copy if for you here again anyway.

And here it is:
I ascribe the name heterodox to those Catholics who:

Knowingly (or unknowningly - but nevertheless are still responsible) misrepresent Church Teaching, Church History, or the Traditions of the Church, while at the same time favoring a viewpoint that fits none of the above valid sources for Teaching/Revelation.
And as far as you asking me:
If there are specific cases of people on this board exhibiting heterodoxy, then please bring that to full attention so we may have a thorough discussion
Well TP, if the definition that I placed above fits a certain person’s views/thoughts/teachings, then they have already self-defined their status as it relates to Church Teaching. And they would be then: Those who would like others to BELIEVE that they are Catholics, but who are in fact actually following a religion of their own making.

So what else then TP, are you asking of me my friend?

Are you asking me to go on endless debates with every self-ascribed dissenting Catholic that might be perusing these forums? Well (ha-ha!), I know better than that TP! If I chance to encounter such individuals, I will simply reiterate for them the Church Teachings that as Catholics, they are prescribesd to follow.

And that’s it.

I can not force their obedience, but can only point to them their errors. After I’ve showed them the undeniable Truth of Christ’ Teaching’s as it has been made through the Teaching Magisterium of our Church - then the rest is up to them.

You then go on to ask me:
I feel just about everyone here would define themselves as being orthodox Catholics, yet you seem to not agree with that.
I’ve heard discussion go this way before, so let me stop this in it’s tracks right now before we go any further. It is not I who either agrees/disagrees on whether or not somebody is a orthodox or a heterodox Catholic.

But it is the clear and unalterable Teaching of the Magisterium that ultimately defines who is/is not a son or daughter of the Church.

I just merely use the Church’s Teachings to point on which side of the theological fence a certain person has chose to stand (or straddle).

Pretty simple methodology here TP … 😉

And I’m just curious here my friend, as you havn’t yet answered this very question yourself …

Where do you stand?
 
fireman,

I have now read your response twice, thanks for the repost, though it was not at all required. You have provided a sound defintion, thanks for that, yet I think we all knew the definition of heterodoxy…just as I think most of us here will on orthodoxy. I suppose I am at a loss as to why you posted the defintion, considering you are not really calling out any actual posts or posters.

Where do I stand on which issue?
(btw, some people with lofty resumes are the most heterodox people around)
 
fireman,

I have now read your response twice, thanks for the repost, though it was not at all required.
I think it was, thank you.
yet I think we all knew the definition of heterodoxy…just as I think most of us here will on orthodoxy
Wrong!

So you now believe that you know the minds of everybody here as it concerns their definition of orthodoxy/heterodoxy TP?

That is not the case. And from that somewhat vague comment that you had made above - you lead me to believe that you and I are not even reading the same forums. As there seem to be MANY here who “believe” that they are orthodox, when in fact they aren’t even close.

As proof, try reading some of the threads in the “Moral Theology” section. You are reading the forums as I am, aren’t you TP?
I suppose I am at a loss as to why you posted the defintion, considering you are not really calling out any actual posts or posters.
And I am at a loss as to why you have not seen the reason that I have repeated that definition?

I initially brought it up here on this thread to define those people who commonly use the watered down line of “let Ben. XVI do his job with love and prayer” - while at the same time excluding/disregarding his God given authority to discipline as well. Now, does that help you to remember why I was defining heterodoxy/orthodoxy?

Additionally, I once again make the observation that you are not even reading the forum here. As I have taken up several posts/posters on many different threads.

But what really worries me TP, is this constant “obsession” that you have for insisting that I “call people out”. I find your use of that term quite troubling.

Are you alright TP?

Incidentally, when I do enter into those types of discussions, I simple use Church Teaching - and that’s it. I don’t beat a dead horse by debating someone ad nauseam when someone becomes adamant in their refusal to accept Church Doctrine.

In almost every one of those cases, I am just truly wasting my time if I continue on in a long debate. As their hearts are hard, and they will not listen to anyone. My job then, is to simply inform them of their error - and move on.
Where do I stand on which issue?
Ummmm. On whether or not you are an orthodox Catholic, or a heterodox Catholic. Sorry, I thought I made that much clear my friend.
(btw, some people with lofty resumes are the most heterodox people around)
If you believe that my resume was lofty TP, then you havn’t been around much! Really, nice jab there though …

Look at all the degrees Fr. Corapi has (5 or 6 Master’s degrees I think). Guess he’s just another heterodox too, huh TP? And what about the Dr.'s of the Church, of whom many listed had truly
exquisit resumes? St. Augustine, for one, comes to mind. Is he also a heterodox TP?

***LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ***
 
fireman,

First, please put down the sword, I am not attacking you on any level and apologize if I wrote anything that seemed that way. I am merely trying to understand why you posted a definition that “I” think most people here already know.

Yes, I do read these boards, and yes I agree there are some heterodox people here…I said “most” people here would consider themselves to be quite orthodox–that is my opinion.

Yes, I consider myself to be an orthodox, faithful Roman Catholic Christian.

As for resumes, my point was not to jab at you, my point is that resumes do not equal orthodox. The original apostles had no resumes at all, yet I would say they qualify as being orthodox. I have known plenty of people who have letters after their names that could full a page, and yet they are quite heterodox in their beliefs and practices. We all have resumes of some type, and sighting our accomplishments, education or formation, does very little to reveal our orthodoxy. Resumes merely tell us that a person has education or formation (or both), they do not tell us if the person is loyal to Christ, His teachings, His Pope, His Magisterium and His Church…to gleen that we must learn more about the person.

As for calling people out, I am not saying you should attack anyone, I am merely saying that it might be more productive to have a discussion about why a given statement falls under heterodoxy (in your opinion), rather then give definitions that we all know. After all, we are fallible people, our opinions are just that: our opinions. We can be wrong, which is why (IMO) we need to remain open to discussion, that way we can learn as we journey through this life. No person on earth can say they have “arrived.”
 
TPJCatholicfireman,

First, please put down the sword,
But I havn’t even sharpened it yet!
Yes, I consider myself to be an orthodox, faithful Roman Catholic Christian.
TY for answering my question. I was asking it because from what we have written here in our exchange, it was difficult (for me anyway) to really tell.

Thanks again, for having kindly answered my query.
As for resumes, my point was not to jab at you, my point is that resumes do not equal orthodox.
True. I just felt that you may have have been painting the brush a little too wide there.
As for calling people out, I am not saying you should attack anyone, I am merely saying that it might be more productive to have a discussion about why a given statement falls under heterodoxy (in your opinion), rather then give definitions that we all know.
I guess at this point TP, I’ve just become ***extremely ***gun-shy when people start “questioning” articles of the faith (not saying that you do). My diocese is FILLED with people who actually despise, ridicule and hate certain Teachings of the Church. And unfortuneately, one after another - they’ve all stuck it to me (and some of them, quite viciously).

So I don’t really bother getting involved in too many discussions anymore. I just dispense to them with what the Church Teaches - and then go on my merry way. It’s a heck of a lot less painful way to survive TP. But at least I can survive …
We can be wrong
Yes, WE certainly can be wrong TP. But I do not engage in conversations with people on what “I feel” or on what “I want” in the Church. I merely adhere to the clear and bonafide Teachings of the Church. Still, (from where I reside anyway) this doesn’t go over too well. Thus, my knee-jerk response and defensive postures. I didn’t start out that way TP, really, I didn’t! But reacting this way has provided for me a wall of protection that I could no longer afford to do without.

Yeah, I know. Not very pretty, “but it works”.
No person on earth can say they have “arrived.”
“Arrived ?” Heck TP, I don’t even think that my “bus” has even left the station yet!

It is still coming … isn’t it TP?

LOLOLOLOL
 
40.png
Lux_et_veritas:
Ahhh - but we must be mindful that since Jesus never taught with a stick
Why use a stick, when a bullwhip is handy? 😃
 
Along the same lines as the previous posts, here’s an interesting tidbit for all the folks who think that “the Holy Spirit is going to change/soften Benedict,” or some such garbage.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0502878.htm

For pope, dialogue does not mean toning down doctrinal teachings

By John Thavis
Catholic News Service

ROME (CNS) – Soon after his election in April, Pope Benedict XVI said promoting unity in the church and dialogue with the world were high priorities of his papal ministry.

In early May, the pope made it clear that those goals do not mean toning down the church’s doctrinal teachings.

The occasion was the new pope’s installation as the bishop of Rome May 7 at the Basilica of St. John Lateran. The Mass was packed with Romans who turned out to welcome the German-born pontiff as one of their own.

Pope Benedict decided to speak at length about the meaning of the “cathedra” or chair that he now occupies as bishop of Rome, the symbol of his episcopal power and responsibility.

In a special way, he said, it is a symbol of “the authority to teach” that has been handed down by Christ to St. Peter and his other disciples.

This ministry includes that of authentically interpreting Scripture, which surpasses the interpretations and analyses of scholars, he said.

“Where Holy Scripture is disjoined from the living voice of the church, it falls prey to the disputes of experts,” he said. While scholarly study is important, he said, “science alone cannot furnish us with a definitive and binding interpretation.”

“For this is needed a greater mandate, one that cannot stem from mere human abilities. For this is needed the voice of the living church,” he said.

Pope Benedict acknowledged that the church’s teaching ministry is not always popular.

“This authority to teach frightens many people inside and outside the church. They ask themselves whether this doesn’t threaten the freedom of conscience, or whether it is not a presumption that goes against freedom of thought,” he said.

“It is not so,” he said. He added that the church’s authority to teach should not be seen as an imposition on others but as an act of service to the church and obedience to the faith.

In that sense, he said, the pope is not “an absolute sovereign” who proclaims his own ideas, but one who must strongly defend the word of God from “all attempts of adaptation or watering down.”

The pope’s words echoed many of his statements made during his 24-year tenure as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, but he took care to emphasize that he was speaking not as a doctrinal expert but as the universal shepherd.

He noted that his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, held the same strong views about the need to defend church teaching, especially on human life issues. That includes the “inviolability of human life from conception to natural death,” he said.

“The freedom to kill is not true freedom, but rather a tyranny that reduces the human being to slavery,” he said.

The fact that Pope Benedict used his first major appearance in Rome to underline church teachings on life issues like abortion and euthanasia was quickly noticed by the Italian media. Some observers felt that this sermon may have been designed to set the tone of his papacy.

The pope seemed to suggest it could not be otherwise – that it was not a question of papal policies or personalities but of his fundamental duty to be a “guide in the profession of the faith.”

He said that when it comes to big decisions any pope feels tied to the “binding interpretations that have grown up along the pilgrim path of the church.”

The pope, he said, bears the huge responsibility of defending the purity of the word of God and making sure it is “not torn to pieces by continuous changes in fashion.”

In early appearances after his election, Pope Benedict described himself as a humble servant. With his latest remarks, he made it clear that this form of service also means wielding the church’s teaching authority against “erroneous interpretations of freedom.”
 
40.png
FiremanFrank:
  • My training that I’ve received in a 2 year diocesan “Formation for Heresy” … errr, I mean “Formation for Ministry” Program
:rotfl: Wow, you lasted much longer than I did…after a few months of Native American Spirituality indoctrination, I just stopped attending the Formation in Ministry classes…just couldn’t take it any more…:o
 
Panis Angelicas

Wow, you lasted much longer than I did…
Know what you mean Panis Angelicas!

I can not even count the number of nights that I came home and literally cried in front of the pictures of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart.

But I was determined to get through it, and somehow …

I did.

Whew!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top