Judaism and Muhammad

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AveChriste11

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So I see there is a thread covering why Christians do not accept Muhammad as a legitimate prophet. I was wondering about the Jewish response as I’ve never actually seen one? There is a lot of material providing Jewish answers to Christians however. From the little bit I’ve read Muhammad seemed to have several interactions with a Jewish diaspora in Arabia. Islam itself seems far more similar to Judaism than Christianity does and am I correct that the Rabbi’s agreed long ago that it was not idolatrous and was almost deemed part of the religion of Noah? Based off the understanding that God made a covenant with the Gentiles through Noah?
 
It’s my understanding the Jewish people do not accept Muhammad.

I don’t know about the covenant with the gentiles through Noah. I thought the gentiles were included with Christ.
 
AveChriste11 said:
So I see there is a thread covering why Christians do not accept Muhammad as a legitimate prophet. I was wondering about the Jewish response as I’ve never actually seen one? There is a lot of material providing Jewish answers to Christians however. From the little bit I’ve read Muhammad seemed to have several interactions with a Jewish diaspora in Arabia. Islam itself seems far more similar to Judaism than Christianity does and am I correct that the Rabbi’s agreed long ago that it was not idolatrous and was almost deemed part of the religion of Noah? Based off the understanding that God made a covenant with the Gentiles through Noah?
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The Seven Laws of Noah apply to all Gentiles (non-Jews), which include Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and everyone else who is not Jewish. Gentiles are obligated to follow the Noachide Law, while Jews should study and practice the Torah Law (as best they can). With regard to Muhammad, as I stated on the other thread, Jews do not believe him to be a prophet any more than they believe Jesus was a prophet. Jesus was a rabbi who had some unorthodox views, as do many other rabbis. The Nazarene Jews, on the other hand, believe Jesus had the most orthodox views regarding Torah: they believe him to be the Messiah but not G-d. Muhammad, however, has no such status at all in Judaism. Nonetheless, you are correct that rabbis considered Islam more strictly monotheistic than Christianity, which believes in a Triune G-d. It was never forbidden for a Jew to enter a mosque but it was forbidden to enter a church. This idolatrous notion of Christianity has changed for the most part among Jews in recent times.
 
What about the verse in Deuteronomy which they use? Talking about raising up a prophet from among your brethren? Their logic is that Arabs are genetic brothers or cousins to the Jewish people so they seem to believe the writer was referring to Muhammad.
 
Sam_777 said:
Maybe from the Jewish side, but Islamically you are forbidden from entering any Islamic mosque…
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Wouldn’t that depend on which sect of Islam or school of thought you are referring to?
 
meltzerboy said:
Nonetheless, you are correct that rabbis considered Islam more strictly monotheistic than Christianity, which believes in a Triune G-d.
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Even though we Christian tell you we follow one God? I know the concept of three persons of one substance would be hard for a non-Christian to grasp but I would have thought Jews could more easily understand this in light of Genesis 2:24 “a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one flesh” A multiplicity of persons constitute one flesh or one body, not two fleshes or two bodies.
 
Augustine3 said:
Even though we Christian tell you we follow one God? I know the concept of three persons of one substance would be hard for a non-Christian to grasp but I would have thought Jews could more easily understand this in light of Genesis 2:24 “a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one flesh” A multiplicity of persons constitute one flesh or one body, not two fleshes or two bodies.
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This may work for humans but not for G-d according to rabbinical understanding. This is because G-d is neither a person in structure or function nor a multiplicity of persons, but rather a unity which is indivisible, separate and distinct from His creation, from nature, from human beings. Two becoming one as in the human example you give, or one consisting of two or three, is foreign to Judaism when it pertains to G-d.
 
meltzerboy said:
This may work for humans but not for G-d according to rabbinical understanding. This is because G-d is neither a person in structure or function nor a multiplicity of persons, but rather a unity which is indivisible, separate and distinct from His creation, from nature, from human beings. Two becoming one as in the human example you give, or one consisting of two or three, is foreign to Judaism when it pertains to G-d.
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God has never walked this Earth as a man before?
 
meltzerboy said:
This may work for humans but not for G-d according to rabbinical understanding. This is because G-d is neither a person in structure or function nor a multiplicity of persons, but rather a unity which is indivisible, separate and distinct from His creation, from nature, from human beings. Two becoming one as in the human example you give, or one consisting of two or three, is foreign to Judaism when it pertains to G-d.
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I agree with you that God is “a unity which is indivisible, separate and distinct from His creation, from nature, from human beings”. However, God has left a mark of his identity imprinted within us, as you know we are made in God’s image. Both Jews and Christians can agree to be made in God’s image means to posses intellect and free will just as God has. We must also consider another significant point. In genesis 1:26 God decreed to make man in his image, immediately in the next verse we read “God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them”.

Furthermore the very next time scripture mentions a person in another’s image is Genesis 5:3 “Adam was one hundred and thirty years old when he begot a son in his likeness, after his image; and he named him Seth”. Again we see here Adam the father of Seth, two distinct persons yet share the same flesh. I will go one step further and add Eve and Adam have become one flesh through begetting Seth, hence the three persons share the one flesh much like the Christian belief in the holy Trinity.
 
meltzerboy said:
I’ve wondered about that. So Islam allows only Muslims to enter mosques even if it is not for the purpose of worship?
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That’s not true. Islam forbids idolators from entering Makkah and the masjid al-haram. Islam also forbids Muslims and non Muslims alike from entering a mosque while ritually impure although it’s not enforceable. Some things that make a person ritually impure include urination and feces on a persons body or clothing, blood, and sexual intercourse. A person becomes ritually pure again after they’ve washed up and so the expectation is that people would enter the mosques in a clean state out of respect for the place of worship.

I don’t have the exact reference with me at the moment but Muhammad (p) himself invited a delegation of Christians and their leaders to his mosque in Madina.

A few years ago we had an event at our mosque where we hosted members of the police force as part of a police initiative to foster cultural understanding between police officers and Muslims. We also have a synagogue next to the mosque where we share a common parking lot and every now and then there’s some sort of event where we invite members of that synagogue to our Mosque and vice versa.

You will always find close minded people in every community but I would encourage everyone to not negatively judge Islam and Muslims as a whole because of one bad denomination so to speak.
 
famdigy said:
That’s not true. Islam forbids idolators from entering Makkah and the masjid al-haram. Islam also forbids Muslims and non Muslims alike from entering a mosque while ritually impure although it’s not enforceable. Some things that make a person ritually impure include urination and feces on a persons body or clothing, blood, and sexual intercourse. A person becomes ritually pure again after they’ve washed up and so the expectation is that people would enter the mosques in a clean state out of respect for the place of worship.

I don’t have the exact reference with me at the moment but Muhammad (p) himself invited a delegation of Christians and their leaders to his mosque in Madina.

A few years ago we had an event at our mosque where we hosted members of the police force as part of a police initiative to foster cultural understanding between police officers and Muslims. We also have a synagogue next to the mosque where we share a common parking lot and every now and then there’s some sort of event where we invite members of that synagogue to our Mosque and vice versa.

You will always find close minded people in every community but I would encourage everyone to not negatively judge Islam and Muslims as a whole because of one bad denomination so to speak.
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I have been many times invited by my Muslim friends to visit some very interesting and outstanding mosques. It was never an issue just because we were non-Muslims. We were asked only to take off our shoes which we knew quite well. We understood the reverence for a place of worship being worshippers ourselves. I would give it due respect like keeping quiet and to limit walking to the open space of the mosque so as not to seem to intrude.

It is news to me that Christians are disallowed to enter a mosque. And of course nobody knows whether we are unclean (intercourse, menstruating or unknowingly have stain of blood on our body or clothing). I guess Christians don’t feel obliged to observe the rule for being ‘unclean’.
 
AveChriste11 said:
Wouldn’t that depend on which sect of Islam or school of thought you are referring to?
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meltzerboy said:
I’ve wondered about that. So Islam allows only Muslims to enter mosques even if it is not for the purpose of worship?
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The reference I have is a hadith in Arabic below, at least in SA we are following that.

أحمد في رواية وجهها كما قال ابن قدامة: أن أبا موسى دخل على عمر ومعه كتاب قد كتب فيه حساب عمله، فقال له عمر ادع الذي كتبه ليقرأه. قال: إنه لا يدخل المسجد، قال: ولم؟ قال: إنه نصراني​
http://jewishdailyreport.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/apartheidhighwaymecca2.gif
 
meltzerboy said:
This may work for humans but not for G-d according to rabbinical understanding. This is because G-d is neither a person in structure or function nor a multiplicity of persons, but rather a unity which is indivisible, separate and distinct from His creation, from nature, from human beings. Two becoming one as in the human example you give, or one consisting of two or three, is foreign to Judaism when it pertains to G-d.
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Just wondering in the first book of the bible isn’t it considered the word of God in Jewish faith? Is so what do you do with the beginning when God made man in His Image?

So if you accept the book of Genesis would that not be a clue to God is indeed human and Divine?
 
rinnie said:
Just wondering in the first book of the bible isn’t it considered the word of God in Jewish faith? Is so what do you do with the beginning when God made man in His Image?

So if you accept the book of Genesis would that not be a clue to God is indeed human and Divine?
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G-d made mankind in His image means that G-d gave to mankind some of the positive attributes that G-d has to an infinitely higher degree, such as goodness, kindness, compassion, intellect, reason, and so on. But mankind is but an “image” of G-d, not His essence. However, the verse does show that mankind was created with the potential for goodness rather than in a state of sin.
 
meltzerboy said:
G-d made mankind in His image means that G-d gave to mankind some of the positive attributes that G-d has to an infinitely higher degree, such as goodness, kindness, compassion, intellect, reason, and so on. But mankind is but an “image” of G-d, not His essence. However, the verse does show that mankind was created with the potential for goodness rather than in a state of sin.
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God said let US make man in OUR image after OUR Likeness though. How do you explain the us and our and likeness then?

For God to speak as Us is that not Plural? Thanks melzerboy you are always so kind and patient with me.😉

But you are right and I can agree with you image can mean what you said, but what about likeness that was after image.
 
meltzerboy said:
G-d made mankind in His image means that G-d gave to mankind some of the positive attributes that G-d has to an infinitely higher degree, such as goodness, kindness, compassion, intellect, reason, and so on. But mankind is but an “image” of G-d, not His essence. However, the verse does show that mankind was created with the potential for goodness rather than in a state of sin.
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Also I agree God made mankind in his image in which was goodness and not in a state of sin,

It was free-will that was given to man that sin was created. LIke Eve KNEW she could not eat the apple, but wanted to be better then God so she did.

But she had the goodness to KNOW what God told her, but had the free will to sin, and disobey God.

It amazes me at times how people say Eve was tricked by the devil. I am like yeah, thats pretty much how he still works today. 🤷

People want to blame the devil and let her off the hook. I aways say thats how we got the saying the devil made me do it!😛
 
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