Judaism, Christianity, Islam. Is it really the same God?

[JimmyDFG]

But His Goodness is, albeit in deleted form. For example, when a Hindu loves his neighbor, that is Good. When a Muslim tells the truth, when lying would be so much easier, that is Good. When a Jew stewards over the Earth wisely, that is Good.

A Hindu’s, or Muslim’s, or Jew’s lack of knowledge/belief in Christ does not change that these things are Good.

Hi, Jimmy!
…I think that Jane means that God is the source of all that is good–that is, man cannot do good of his own.

What you have demonstrated, though, is that we must be Obedient in our Faith and Belief since it is not merely about “good works” but about Fellowship in good works.

Maran atha!

Angel

Catechism of the Catholic Church 46
“When he listens to the message of creation and to the voice of conscience, man can arrive at certainty about the existence of God, the cause and the end of everything.”

Yes, I know that loving your neighbour and not lying is Good that comes from God, most of which are in the 10 Commandments and the Bible .But there are religions that do not follow the 10 Commandments, but they follow their own set of commandments that oppose the 10 Commandments. Take for instance an atheist who may not steal …is he/she following Gods law or the criminal code of that country. No matter how much good you do denying God exists will not bring you salvation (if its no fault of your own)

In Matthew 5:46
For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?

jcrichton, Can you explain to me again what I have “demonstrated”

 

[jcrichton]

Catechism of the Catholic Church 46
“When he listens to the message of creation and to the voice of conscience, man can arrive at certainty about the existence of God, the cause and the end of everything.”

Yes, I know that loving your neighbour and not lying is Good that comes from God, most of which are in the 10 Commandments and the Bible .But there are religions that do not follow the 10 Commandments, but they follow their own set of commandments that oppose the 10 Commandments. Take for instance an atheist who may not steal …is he/she following Gods law or the criminal code of that country. No matter how much good you do denying God exists will not bring you salvation (if its no fault of your own)

In Matthew 5:46
For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?

jcrichton, Can you explain to me again what I have “demonstrated”

…even an atheist cannot do good out of nothing–the goodness that is demonstrated/done/acted upon comes from God regardless of the person’s belief system.

Granted, no one is disputing that Salvation is dependent upon Christ.

…conversely, the definition of “good” must be dependent upon God’s definition of “good.” That is to say, a person cannot commit evil to produce good (hollowood’s propaganda); which was Jesus’ argument. Yet, even those who do not believe in Jesus cannot produce “good” outside of God. That’s the conundrum of the atheist: he/she cannot emulate evil to do “good.” In spite of rejecting God man must emulate God in order to produce “good”–even if the act itself is selfish (ie: donating money to a needy atheist family while ignoring the need of a Christian family in similar circumstance).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Reuben_J]

Well, we must remember that historically, Islam is more “distant.” Not theologically different, as they took a lot of stuff from Judaism, but different both geographically and historically. Muhammad was trying to build his own uniquely Arabian faith out of Judaism and Christianity. We see God as the One revealing the Torah (first, then everything else afterwards) but they see god as revealing the Qur’an along with other holy books which are not ours.

Also, if Abraham apparently lived in Mecca and built the Kaaba, that is inconsistent with both archaeology and the Bible. So Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews would still worship God, but Allah is different when used as a personal formal name, like “John” is to a person.

This is consistent with a Protestant view when considered the claims of Allah being a pre-Islamic Arabian deity with three daughters (though one may have been a wife).

I would see the Islamic god in similar fashion, our Catholic official teaching on it notwithstanding.

The Islamic presentation of its god, both historically and theologically, is far too distant from that of Christianity, that their god is unrecognizable from the God of Christianity. So it is truly very hard to admit that they are the same God.

I have tried to defend the Catechism position by merely saying that there is only one God, who is the Creator. If Islam says its God is the Creator, therefore we are all referring to the same Being, since there is only one Creator. Then it come to reason too, similarly for all the religions who believe that their God is the Creator.

So that is the problem. If we accord to Islam that its God is the same as ours, then for the same reason, we have to do the same for the other religions as well. If that is so, then those who are worshipping the same God as us may not be confined just to Judaism and Islam only, but all other religions as well who profess that their God is the Creator.

 

[Hatikvah]

I would see the Islamic god in similar fashion, our Catholic official teaching on it notwithstanding.

The Islamic presentation of its god, both historically and theologically, is far too distant from that of Christianity, that their god is unrecognizable from the God of Christianity. So it is truly very hard to admit that they are the same God.

I have tried to defend the Catechism position by merely saying that there is only one God, who is the Creator. If Islam says its God is the Creator, therefore we are all referring to the same Being, since there is only one Creator. Then it come to reason too, similarly for all the religions who believe that their God is the Creator.

So that is the problem. If we accord to Islam that its God is the same as ours, then for the same reason, we have to do the same for the other religions as well. If that is so, then those who are worshipping the same God as us may not be confined just to Judaism and Islam only, but all other religions as well who profess that their God is the Creator.

I understand this stance with the catechism’s view, which is exactly why I’ve said “consistent with a Protestant view” and “a personal theological opinion” (post #2). This matter is a little deeper, and an ecclesiological view of mine is that the Church added that for ecumenical purposes… but that’s just me, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

CCC 826…LOVE, IN FACT, IS THE VOCATION WHICH INCLUDES ALL OTHERS…

CCC 839 “Those who have not yet recieved the Gospel are related to the people of God in various ways”… When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the people of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish people…The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant…to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ (Romans 9:4-5)

CCC 840 (Considering the future)… God’s people of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals; expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah… (The Jews)… awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the Latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

CCC 841 “The PLAN OF SALVATION also includes those who acknowledge the Creator…who are Muslims; **these profess **to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day”

**If one reads paragraph 841 in the official language of the Church which is Latin. The expression never states we worship the same God as Islam. Which appears to be the majority of the English misinterpretation.

The Latin sentiment expresses (from the PLAN OF SALVATION) a relationship to the individual Muslim not Islam, who, “with us, adore the one, merciful God and mankind’s judge on the last day”**

Muslim means submission to God. From the Muslim definition the CCC takes her unity with all the Abrahamic faithful, who submit to the one Creator God, “and mankind’s judge on the last day”. Yet the CCC never adds or subtracts from what is simply stated in paragraph 841. Muslims not Islam and all other non-Christians are never excluded with in God’s plan of salvation.

CCC 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus , the Church considers all goodness and truth found in the these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life”.

CCC 835 "Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum…In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she puts her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world. The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches…unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church.

A same God does not exist. There is only One God creator and Judge of mankind. The Jews hold to this, a Muslim holds to this and so does the Catholic faithful.

Where we differ is in our theological expression of worship, culture, disciplines, heritage. language and understanding of revelation.

Although the Catholic church from her historical existence since the resurrection, is inclusive of all nations, tongues, tribes, cultures and theological understandings in every age to today. All at the expense from the blood of Martyrs and Saints who transformed their weapons of warfare into plows to plant and water the seeds for the Kingdom of God.