Judaism or Catholicsm?!

[OneTrueCathApos]

I didn’t say you hate jews.

I am quite familiar with my scriptures, yes. That’s why I know you are mistaken.

no. that is not it. But please feel free to tell me what covenant was broken bythe Israelites that caused them to wander in the desert for 40 years. I must have missed that part of Shemos/Exodus.

**Well, if you are quite familiar with your Scripture, you will see that only 2 of the spies dissent from this: Joshua ben Nun, who is Moses chief student, and Caleb ben Yeferna from the Tribe of Judah.
But the Jewish people accept the majority report of the spies. The people break
down in tears at the news and refuse to budge.
Moses is absolutely horrified and God is very angry.
He issues two decrees of punishment
1.) God tells the Jews that because of their lack of faith after he had brought them so far, they are doomed to wander the desert for 40 years (one year for every day they spied out the land) until the entire adult male population (except the Levites who did not listen to the spies) had died off.
2.) God tells the Jews that because they cried on this day for no good reason, they will cry this day in history for some very good reasons.

The Jews wander for 40 years. It’s interesting to note that virtually none of the text of the Bible deals with the details of the wandering. If you examine the text of Numbers you will notice that between the Torah portion dealing with Korach’s rebellion (Num. 16-18) and the next Torah portion Chukot (um 19-20). There is a gap of 38 years. The only brief mention of the travels that took place during those 38 years comes at the end of the Book of Numbers in the portion entitled Masei…we see these gaps many times in the Narrative. Since the Bible is meant to teach us lessons and was not meant to be a diary or history book, only events that have a lesson relevant to us today are recorded; others are mentioned oly briefly or skipped altogether…but you already knew this…**

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I didn’t say you hate jews.

I am quite familiar with my scriptures, yes. That’s why I know you are mistaken.

no. that is not it. But please feel free to tell me what covenant was broken bythe Israelites that caused them to wander in the desert for 40 years. I must have missed that part of Shemos/Exodus.

The Sinai is not that big. 40 years wandering?

I thought it was because Moses refused to stop and ask for directions.

Or, maybe it wasn’t the Covenant that was broken…

Perhaps you too should study the Old Testament.

 

[Valke2]

Well, if you are quite familiar with your Scripture, you will see that only 2 of the spies dissent from
this: Joshua ben Nun, who is Moses chief student, and Caleb ben Yeferna from the Tribe of Judah.

Yes.

But the Jewish people accept the majority report of the spies. The people break
down in tears at the news and refuse to budge.

 

[Cluny]

Christianity’s emphasis on “you have to die to get to the good part” is very unnerving to me.

Jesus never said this. Read Mark 10.

And Jesus as the Messiah is very difficult for me. How is it that God became three, became incarnated, and killed himself when God is supposed to be ONE?

That you talk about God killing himself shows that you were either not instructed properly, or didn’t understand what you were taught.

Sounds like some basic B-flat catechetics are in order.

Go to your local RCIA as a refresher.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Yes.

Correct.

Ok.

Almost correct. The only survivors that cross over after 40 years are Joshua and Caleb, if I recall.

ok.

I thank you for admitting that I was correct and that the Jews were not forced to wander for 40 years because they broke any of the covenants.

No you were not correct. Near the end of the **40 years of wandering, **they find themselves—as they did a number of times before—without water. And as they did a number of times before, they are complaining.
God tells Moses to speak to the rock and water will flow.
For the past **40 years **Moses had the hardest job—leading a group of unruly people. God Himself described as “stiff necked”.
So after **40 years **of trying to lead this stubborn nation, Moses loses his temper for one moment. “You rebels” he shouts. And instead of speaking to the rock as he was commanded to do, he hits it.
And God says to Moses “**Because you did not believe in me in the eyes of the children of Israel, you’re not going to go into the land of Israel with the Jewish people.” **(Numbers 20:12)

 

[Valke2]

No you were not correct. Near the end of the **40 years of wandering, **they find themselves—as they did a number of times before—without water. And as they did a number of times before, they are complaining.
God tells Moses to speak to the rock and water will flow.
For the past **40 years **Moses had the hardest job—leading a group of unruly people. God Himself described as “stiff necked”.
So after **40 years **of trying to lead this stubborn nation, Moses loses his temper for one moment. “You rebels” he shouts. And instead of speaking to the rock as he was commanded to do, he hits it.
And God says to Moses “**Because you did not believe in me in the eyes of the children of Israel, you’re not going to go into the land of Israel with the Jewish people.” **(Numbers 20:12)

Perhaps you need to revisit the issue of what a covenat between God and the people of Israel is, where it was stated and what it required. Because so far in defending your position you have failed to cite any scripture which supports your mistken belief that the Jews wandered 40 years in the desert because they broke one of the Covenants with God.

So let us go over the covenants. I’ll get you started. There is the covenant with Abraham, that is renewed and repeate with Issac and Jacob. Essentially, this was an unconditional covenant is that once Abraham would left his birth place and went where God told him to go, he and all of his people to come would be blessed immeasurably. “Go forth from your native land and from your father’s house to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation, And I will bless you’”.

Ok. So obviously this covennt was not the one that the Jews at Sina broke, resulting in 40 years of wandering.

 

[Valke2]

A second Covenant had to do with our receiving the Torah and agreeing to Obey its laws. Not really applicable to why the Jews were made to wander for 40 years.

The third covenant was made with Noah and also not applicable here.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

A second Covenant had to do with our receiving the Torah and agreeing to Obey its laws. Not really applicable to why the Jews were made to wander for 40 years.

The third covenant was made with Noah and also not applicable here.

I have already quoted Numbers in which a book you are not familiar with.
You know what the Jews greatest weakness is? Your complete stubborn dedication to an idea that makes every Jew think that he’s right and every Jew think that he’s going to change the world his way.
This is a group that is very, very difficult to unify and almost impossible to lead.
It is far easier to be the Premier of a billion Chinese, than the Prime Minister of a few million Jews.

 

[ralphinal]

Actually, I have always been taught that it was the fact that Israel would not let go of Egypt that caused them to stay lost. They never fully trusted God. That was why they were stiff necked.

 

[Ghoti]

It is far easier to be the Premier of a billion Chinese, than the Prime Minister of a few million Jews.

Of course it is. Especially when dissent is dealt with using repression, bloody reprisals, internment, massacres, etc. Totalitarianism is a wonderful method of keeping the trains running on time.

Israel is unfortunate enough to try the democratic route, when obviously they should have opted for dictatorship.

 

[planten]

**The Quran gives the right information about it. The Jews did wander in the desert for 40 years and that generation did not enter the promised land. It was the next geneartion who entered the promised land. The land that was promised to Abraham and his seed.

It is wrong to blame Moses for anything (that he used the rod and did not speak to the rock). There was no such thing. The Quran is telling that God ordered Moses to " Hit the rock with his rod. As he did it, 12 fountains flowed out o fthe rock. Each tribe knew about his place of water." There was no mistake on the part of Moses.

Where was the mistake and why Jews were not allowed to enter promised land?

Jews had refused to enter into the promised land for fear of the Palestinians. So, Moses a.s. had sent two (teams) of investigators into Palestine. They returned with good news.that it was fit to attack and enter.

But the Jewish people refused to enter and said “O Moses, you go and your God shoud go and fight and enter the land. We are sitting here (We will not go.)”. This written in the Quran.

So God proclaimed that generation will not enter the promised land. It is no use blaming Moses for anything. he had always been performing miracles with his Rod many times and never by speaking to the sea etc. The flow of water was caused by the use of the same Rod.**

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

A second Covenant had to do with our receiving the Torah and agreeing to Obey its laws. Not really applicable to why the Jews were made to wander for 40 years.

The third covenant was made with Noah and also not applicable here.

You know what the Jews greatest weakness is? Your complete stubborn dedication to an idea that makes every Jew think that he’s right and every Jew think that he’s going to change the world his way.
This is a group that is very, very difficult to unify and almost impossible to read.
It is far easier to be the Premier of a billion Chinese than the Prime Minister of a few million Jews.

 

[Valke2]

You know what the Jews greatest weakness is? Your complete stubborn dedication to an idea that makes every Jew think that he’s right and every Jew think that he’s going to change the world his way.
This is a group that is very, very difficult to unify and almost impossible to read.
It is far easier to be the Premier of a billion Chinese than the Prime Minister of a few million Jews.

well that’s incredibly insulting. And what does that have to do with anything reagarding the allegation that the jews wandered the desert because they broke a covenant with God?

You yourself set forth the reasons albeit with a few minor inaccuracies. And nothing in your post referred to any breach of Covenant.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

well that’s incredibly insulting. And what does that have to do with anything reagarding the allegation that the jews wandered the desert because they broke a covenant with God?

You yourself set forth the reasons albeit with a few minor inaccuracies. And nothing in your post referred to any breach of Covenant.

The last line is from your own “Golda Meir”

 

[Valke2]

The last line is from your own “Golda Meir”

Ok. But that wasn’t the insulting part of your post. But we don’t need to quibble about which parts of your many posts are insulting to Judaism. We were discussing a specific point. That being what covenant you think the Jews broke that resulted in their 40 years of wandering.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Ok. But that wasn’t the insulting part of your post. But we don’t need to quibble about which parts of your many posts are insulting to Judaism. We were discussing a specific point. That being what covenant you think the Jews broke that resulted in their 40 years of wandering.

Every Covenant. And by the way, if we want to talk about insulting or offending God, we just need to look into the Old Testament don’t we.

 

[Valke2]

Every Covenant. And by the way, if we want to talk about insulting or offending God, we just need to look into the Old Testament don’t we.

Ok. I think it has become obvious that you don’t understand the concept of covenant. You are of course free to believe that the Torah is an insult to God.