Judaizing Tendencies

[Thoma_alkhazar]

Ever since Vatican 2 it seems that the Church started to recognize Judaism as a valid religion, which is not at odds with Christianity but actually can enrich Christian understanding of thier own faith. It is evident that we now have Catholic groups who calls themselves “Jewish Catholics” or “Hebrew Catholics” and some of them stick to the Jewish tradtion while living according to the holy teachings of the Church. But why is that? John Chrysostom, the great Greek Church Father, had famously stated that : “if you admire the Jewish way of life, what do you have in common with us? If the Jewish rules are holy and venerable, our way of life must be false”. he was talking against a group of Judaizing Christians, and this passage comes from a seromn which is called “Against the Judiaizers”. Now, it is very important not to read history backwards: in the 4th century when this was said, Judaism was still a vital force and posed a major challenge to Christianity. anyway, what i wanted to ask is : why is the Church goes so far to appease the Jews? ( by birth i am a Jew myself, so it seems odd to me) should we not adopt the same approach that the Church Fathers held? Also, most orthodox Jews thinks of Christians as nothing less than pagans, while some prominent orthodox Christians sees Judaism as a venerable religion. it seems a bit out of place.
Just intrested in your thougts on the subject
Thanks!

 

[JimG]

Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. He preached to Jews; all his first disciples and apostles were Jews. He went to synagogue and temple. Christianity is the fulfillment of the old covenant, not its termination. Jesus completed and fulfilled the old covenant and extended it to all the nations.

St. Paul and other apostles went out to all the nations and began preaching the coming of the messiah. Those who accepted and were baptized were not required to first become Jews under the old covenant.

The Judaizers were a group who contended that one had to continue practicing old covenant Jewish law in order to become a Christian. But that was (and is) not the case.

 

[JimG]

The writings and talks given by Rosalind Moss are a good starting point for Hebrew Catholicism.
envoymagazine.com/backissues/4.6/diplomaticcorps.htm

 

[Ignatius]

…he was talking against a group of Judaizing Christians, and this passage comes from a seromn which is called “Against the Judiaizers”. !

What is the Judaizing that you think is going on?
The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until His recognition by ‘all Israel.’ CCC para. 674

 

[SemperReformada]

What is the Judaizing that you think is going on?
The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until His recognition by ‘all Israel.’ CCC para. 674

What does the “all Israel” mean exactly?

 

[Thoma_alkhazar]

What is the Judaizing that you think is going on?
The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until His recognition by ‘all Israel.’ CCC para. 674

I Have mentioned the Hebrew Catholics groups, who are mostly converts from Judaism, but some are not, take this website for example :

israelcatholic.com/

also, i don’t really get some of the policies of the Church in the recent years towards Judaism. In countries like Israel orthodox Jews persecute converts and occasionally burn New Testament books and consider the Christian pagans (Avodah Zara in Hebrew) i am speaking of course of the Haredis, the most pious group which is growing in number, secular Jews really don’t even know thier own religion, let alone the Christian religion. So why the Holy Father, for example, insists on visiting a synagoge? a place that the Church Fathers (From Jerome to Chrysostom) told never to set foot in?

 

[Della]

I Have mentioned the Hebrew Catholics groups, who are mostly converts from Judaism, but some are not, take this website for example :

israelcatholic.com/

also, i don’t really get some of the policies of the Church in the recent years towards Judaism. In countries like Israel orthodox Jews persecute converts and occasionally burn New Testament books and consider the Christian pagans (Avodah Zara in Hebrew) i am speaking of course of the Haredis, the most pious group which is growing in number, secular Jews really don’t even know thier own religion, let alone the Christian religion. So why the Holy Father, for example, insists on visiting a synagoge? a place that the Church Fathers (From Jerome to Chrysostom) told never to set foot in?

Because you win more flies with honey than with vinegar. Why should Jews and Catholics be at odds with one another to the point of dissing one another’s beliefs and persecuting each other? Jews were persecuted in Catholic countries because they were suspected of being in league with Muslims to take over those countries. That was more about politics than religion, but it still smarts in the Jewish community. Many Jews who don’t even practice their faith bring up the Spanish Inquisition as if it were still ongoing. The Holy Father is trying to erase that perception of the Church in order to bring Christ to all men, Jews and Gentiles alike. Would you rather he hurl invectives against the Jews and throw rocks at synagogues (not that he would or you that would expect him too, just trying to make a point by going overboard a bit here ).

 

[Timothy17]

So why the Holy Father, for example, insists on visiting a synagoge? a place that the Church Fathers (From Jerome to Chrysostom) told never to set foot in?

But remember what was said above, that at the time the admonishments to abstain from all things Jewish were pronounced, there was then still a very active Jewish presence in Christianity (danger of reverting) as a whole (especially in the East) and furthermore Judaism itself was still a religious force to be reckoned with (danger of conversion). It would have been absolutely scandalous for a Catholic to enter into a Jewish synagogue then; however, today no one is scandalized by this, as everyone recognizes it as part of a “good-will” outreach. As another example, imagine if the Holy Father entered into a Protestant worship service or associated with Protestant leaders during the most heated period of the Reformation? Even if he did not partake of their peculiar communion it would have been a tremendous scandal, especially for those on the “front lines.”

No one confuses Judaism for Catholicism anymore or Protestantism for Catholicism. The reason for that is largely due to the Church’s historically very strict separation from such associations. Today, though, Catholics are not scandalized by such happenings, as no one takes it to mean an endorsement of that particular religion.

 

[Thoma_alkhazar]

Because you win more flies with honey than with vinegar. Why should Jews and Catholics be at odds with one another to the point of dissing one another’s beliefs and persecuting each other? Jews were persecuted in Catholic countries because they were suspected of being in league with Muslims to take over those countries. That was more about politics than religion, but it still smarts in the Jewish community. Many Jews who don’t even practice their faith bring up the Spanish Inquisition as if it were still ongoing. The Holy Father is trying to erase that perception of the Church in order to bring Christ to all men, Jews and Gentiles alike. Would you rather he hurl invectives against the Jews and throw rocks at synagogues (not that he would or you that would expect him too, just trying to make a point by going overboard a bit here ).

You are absolutely right. The Spanish inquisition didn’t even go after the Jews, but after the conversos, who were seen as a major therat after the reconquest (there were Jews fighting alongside Muslims in the conquest of Spain, let us remebmer) but of course there were many injustices that were done in the name of the Church in those times and i think nobody denies this.
You and Timothy are right. i gusse what really bugs me is the attitude of the orthodox Jewish world.

 

[Della]

You are absolutely right. The Spanish inquisition didn’t even go after the Jews, but after the conversos, who were seen as a major therat after the reconquest (there were Jews fighting alongside Muslims in the conquest of Spain, let us remebmer) but of course there were many injustices that were done in the name of the Church in those times and i think nobody denies this.
You and Timothy are right. i gusse what really bugs me is the attitude of the orthodox Jewish world.

Yes, it is hard to take when you see people being unjust in their assessments. As Catholics we get it from all sides! Fundamentalist Christians accuse us of all sorts of things based on misconceptions and/or an unwillingness to listen to reason. It’s just human nature fighting against the divine. We see it all the time!

 

[Ignatius]

Ignatius:

What is the Judaizing that you think is going on?

The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until His recognition by ‘all Israel.’ CCC para. 674, cf Rom 11:25-26

What does the “all Israel” mean exactly?

I’d like my question answered first: What is the Judaizing that you think is going on?