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Bezant
Guest
A slim possibility he was saved, or no?
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edithsteinrocks
Guest
Well… I’d like to believe that Jesus forgave him, but of course I have no idea…
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Immaculata90
Guest
Jesus would have forgiven him, had he not hung himself on a tree (which Jesus died for that sin too). But even still, who are we to say if he went to heaven or not. My perfect answer would be yes, because God Alone is judge. We cannot even say with certainty that someone like Osama Bin Laden was not saved. He killed thousands of people, tortured them and did terrible, unspeakable things, but we don’t know what happened when he stood in front of the Lord. He may have truly honestly believed he was being a crusader of sorts. We don’t know.
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centurionguard
Guest
I have always wondered about this myself.
The bible timeline states that Judas after being aware of his guilt went a short ways out beyond the walls of Jerusalem and hung himself as if feeling remorse.
Though I’m not sure if the remorse part has been established as fact.
At any rate did Jesus die on the Cross before Judas hung himself?
Or did Judas die in an act of suicide before Jesus died on the Cross?
Perhaps it has no relevance since Jesus Himself did call Judas the Son of Perdition.
Given this statement by Jesus is it to be taken that Judas Himself never had a certain quality of the Human Gift of Freedom given by God at birth since he was destined to fulfill the role of the Betrayer of Jesus in that timeline.
If not Judas someone had to Betray Jesus to fulfill Scripture from the Old Testament.
Every human being except the Immaculate Virgin Mary has betrayed Jesus at some point in their life past, present, future.
Yet one puzzling question remains in my poor lack of understanding if Judas had died before Jesus did on the Cross why would the Redeeming Grace of what Jesus did on the Cross for all Sinners everywhere fail Judas? Even the Church today holds certain reservations of judgment on some people who do not have full mental faculty when suicide is committed. Not everyone who commits suicide automatically is sent to hell. Or are they?
IMHO I realize I’m very ill-equipped to fully answer this.
The bible timeline states that Judas after being aware of his guilt went a short ways out beyond the walls of Jerusalem and hung himself as if feeling remorse.
Though I’m not sure if the remorse part has been established as fact.
At any rate did Jesus die on the Cross before Judas hung himself?
Or did Judas die in an act of suicide before Jesus died on the Cross?
Perhaps it has no relevance since Jesus Himself did call Judas the Son of Perdition.
Given this statement by Jesus is it to be taken that Judas Himself never had a certain quality of the Human Gift of Freedom given by God at birth since he was destined to fulfill the role of the Betrayer of Jesus in that timeline.
If not Judas someone had to Betray Jesus to fulfill Scripture from the Old Testament.
Every human being except the Immaculate Virgin Mary has betrayed Jesus at some point in their life past, present, future.
Yet one puzzling question remains in my poor lack of understanding if Judas had died before Jesus did on the Cross why would the Redeeming Grace of what Jesus did on the Cross for all Sinners everywhere fail Judas? Even the Church today holds certain reservations of judgment on some people who do not have full mental faculty when suicide is committed. Not everyone who commits suicide automatically is sent to hell. Or are they?
IMHO I realize I’m very ill-equipped to fully answer this.
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Defender1
Guest
He committed suicide without repentance . He killed himself breaking a commandment of Tall shall not kill . He had no time to repent for he was dead . He was unable to repent for a mortal sin . Although the Church from what I understand does not say who is and who is not directly in Hell
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EasterJoy
Guest
According to the CA tract The Hell There Is! catholic.com/library/Hell_There_Is.asp
(Nihil obstat: Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004; but with boldface mine, EasterJoy):
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs” (CCC 1035).
In his 1994 book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, Pope John Paul II wrote that too often “preachers, catechists, teachers . . . no longer have the courage to preach the threat of hell” (p. 183).
Concerning the reality of hell, the pope says, “In point of fact, the ancient councils rejected the theory . . . according to which the world would be regenerated after destruction, and every creature would be saved; a theory which abolished hell. . . . [T]he words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matt. 25:46). [But] who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard” (pp. 185–6).
Thus the issue that some will go to hell is decided, but the issue of who in particular will go to hell is undecided."
(Nihil obstat: Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004; but with boldface mine, EasterJoy):
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs” (CCC 1035).
In his 1994 book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, Pope John Paul II wrote that too often “preachers, catechists, teachers . . . no longer have the courage to preach the threat of hell” (p. 183).
Concerning the reality of hell, the pope says, “In point of fact, the ancient councils rejected the theory . . . according to which the world would be regenerated after destruction, and every creature would be saved; a theory which abolished hell. . . . [T]he words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matt. 25:46). [But] who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard” (pp. 185–6).
Thus the issue that some will go to hell is decided, but the issue of who in particular will go to hell is undecided."
T
thistle
Guest
Obviously only God knows who is saved or not. However, Jesus is God and in my opinion Judas was not saved based on the very words that Jesus spoke.
23 He said in reply, “He who has dipped his hand into the dish with me is the one who will betray me.
24 The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.”
25 Then Judas, his betrayer, said in reply, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” He answered, “You have said so.”
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centurionguard
Guest
I suppose the big question here though…and nobody knows for sure is the fact of being known to God alone is if Judas met the full criteria of Mortal Sin itself.
We can speculate all we want.
Also it is written in transcripts of the Saints that the moment Jesus died He descended into Hell or the Place reserved for all the Dead before Jesus died and He sought out our First Human Parents Adam and Eve and brought them to Heaven by Grace and Merit of His Redemption.
Did Jesus raise others from the dead in the span of Three Days he spent there? Its unknown to us. The only promise we are aware of is what Jesus said when he spoke to the Repentant Sinner (Good Thief) who hung on a Cross beside Jesus.
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CountrySteve
Guest
i voted Undecided. God alone is judge.
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Little_One0307
Guest
I voted that I am undecided and God is the Judge.
Yet, I have to say that I hope that he was saved. No one knows what he did in his final seconds of his life. I guess time will tell, we surely will know the answer at the Final Judgement.
God bless.
Yet, I have to say that I hope that he was saved. No one knows what he did in his final seconds of his life. I guess time will tell, we surely will know the answer at the Final Judgement.
God bless.
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