Judas Iscariot

[Julianna]

I’m wondering what you all think about Judas. Aside from betraying Our Lord, isn’t it questionable that if Jesus knew He was going to die, and how He were to die, He knew that Judas would betray Him, even before he did. Does that mean Judas would be forgiven? Since the devil had gotten into his body, is the blame on Judas? Or is it Our Lord has forgiven him.
Although, I remember Jesus telling Judas “You shall wish you were never born.” If this be the case, Jesus already condemned Judas before Judas even knew he was to betray Him??

Since you what we thought. Here is my take.

Judas was the weathiest of the Apostles and he controlled the purse strings. He also was heavy into politics, and hated the Romans with a passion. He also hated Herod and any Jew who was in align with Rome. IMHO he really believed that Jesus would get the Romans out of Judea and as the Messiah become the new King. I believe he was in with the rebels, i.e. Barabbas and the other underground zealots who were eager to purge their country. I think he made some deals with people he thought he could trust…i.e. the Pharasies…who were also quaking in their boots over Jesus. They didn’t know what to think of him, and as we all know,…fear can become evil.

I imagine that Judas was part of Sting operation. Judas probably tried to convince people that Jesus was the one who could go after Rome. So they said, “hey, bring him here, and we’ll talk to him.” So Judas is like, “well, he’s out in the garden tonight…why don’t you come out then?” they say, “how will we know which one, there is a band of you?” Judas says, “Ok, when I see you approach, I will walk in front of you, and kiss Jesus on the cheek, then you will know.”

Now, when the soldiers showed up and Jesus was “arrested”…Judas freaked out…“hey, I thought you just wanted to talk to him, why the soldiers, why arrest him…he can help us…listen to me…please!”

So he went to the guy he talked to and asked him why he had Jesus arrested, why he told everyone…“basically, we can’t have someone going around thinking his a King, or the Messiah, it’s gets Rome very nervous…and WE have to live under their rule…we don’t want trouble…and oh, by the way…here is 30 pieces of silver for your trouble.”

I think at that point, Judas…(after throwing the money away)…realized what he had done…and what Jesus meant at the Last Supper when he said to him, “do what you must do quickly”…Judas thought it meant…yes, he knows…he’s going to help the cause. When he was tricked…Judas believed the best thing for him to do was die by his own hand.

Now, this is just my story…you asked what I thought. Let me know what you think.

 

[Eliza10]

Jesus was God and man so Jesus knew the future. But he lived in the present, even while knowing everything. His living in the present, as we live, shows us how to live in the present. Even though Jesus knew Judas would betray him, he did not turn him down as an apostle. Jesus says “Come unto me”, not “Go away.” Jesus says anyone who asks will recieve. Judas apparently asked to be a disciple. Probably becasue he wanted to be with the future “King”. Jesus made it clear what kind of kingdom he was extablishing, but people hear what they want to hear sometimes.

As a perfect man living in the present, Jesus showed Judas perfect love, perfect patience, and taught him perfectly, probably indefatigably. But man has free will, and Judas chose what he chose, and it would have been better for him to never have been born, because how great the sin of betraying God. And to have had the perfect teacher and example of the opposite of what he chose. Surely Jesus gave him every possible thing he needed to chooose otherwise. Becaue Jesus cares about every single soul.

Jesus with Judas ia an example to me. At times when I focus on betrayals of my ex-husband, I can get stuck there, particularly when I conclude, based my understanding, that he will likely always be as he is. Then I realize how Jesus was towards Judas - He knew Judas wouldn’t change, but acted in the same perfect charity towards Judas - (and every sinner he met, whose hearts and futures he also knew)- as the ones whom He knew would repent. And thats how Jesus wants us to be. To treat everyone with charity. And it should be easier for us - we aren’t burdened with infallible knowledge that our charity is for a hopeless purpose. Because even those who seem hopeless to us may have an unexpected change of heart, at least on their deathbed.

(Also, I want to add that my opinion is that Judas is in Hell, becasue of what Jesus said about that man who betrays the son of man - obviously thats Judas Iscariot. Only for those in hell would it have been better to never be born. Even the worst purgatory has the great reward of eternity in Heaven and is worth being born for!)

 

[jim1130]

(Also, I want to add that my opinion is that Judas is in Hell, becasue of what Jesus said about that man who betrays the son of man - obviously thats Judas Iscariot. Only for those in hell would it have been better to never be born. Even the worst purgatory has the great reward of eternity in Heaven and is worth being born for!)

That is your opinion (that Judas is in Hell), but it is NOT the opinion of the Catholic Church.

 

[JohnWilliams]

But I believe that Jesus did refer to Judas as the “son of perdition” when speaking of the apostiles:

Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

What did Jesus mean by his being “lost”?

 

[bella5110]

Jesus was God and man so Jesus knew the future. But he lived in the present, even while knowing everything. His living in the present, as we live, shows us how to live in the present. Even though Jesus knew Judas would betray him, he did not turn him down as an apostle. Jesus says “Come unto me”, not “Go away.” Jesus says anyone who asks will recieve. Judas apparently asked to be a disciple. Probably becasue he wanted to be with the future “King”. Jesus made it clear what kind of kingdom he was extablishing, but people hear what they want to hear sometimes.

As a perfect man living in the present, Jesus showed Judas perfect love, perfect patience, and taught him perfectly, probably indefatigably. But man has free will, and Judas chose what he chose, and it would have been better for him to never have been born, because how great the sin of betraying God. And to have had the perfect teacher and example of the opposite of what he chose. Surely Jesus gave him every possible thing he needed to chooose otherwise. Becaue Jesus cares about every single soul.

Jesus with Judas ia an example to me. At times when I focus on betrayals of my ex-husband, I can get stuck there, particularly when I conclude, based my understanding, that he will likely always be as he is. Then I realize how Jesus was towards Judas - He knew Judas wouldn’t change, but acted in the same perfect charity towards Judas - (and every sinner he met, whose hearts and futures he also knew)- as the ones whom He knew would repent. And thats how Jesus wants us to be. To treat everyone with charity. And it should be easier for us - we aren’t burdened with infallible knowledge that our charity is for a hopeless purpose. Because even those who seem hopeless to us may have an unexpected change of heart, at least on their deathbed.

(Also, I want to add that my opinion is that Judas is in Hell, becasue of what Jesus said about that man who betrays the son of man - obviously thats Judas Iscariot. Only for those in hell would it have been better to never be born. Even the worst purgatory has the great reward of eternity in Heaven and is worth being born for!)

I advise you to go out and buy the book about Anne Catherine Emmerick, who had the gift of seeing Our Lord’s Passion in every detail. At the back of her book, she mentions Judas. Very interesting. Many people connverted to Catholisism after reading this book. I know because I gave them out to several.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Please see

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1632962&postcount=2

 

[Will_Pick]

To be 100% honest, I do not put a lot of time, effort, or thought into this because I do not know the eternal outcome of Judas Iscariot, if he was forgiven or not. That is not my place to determine let alone even speculate. I’ve been on non-Catholic boards that believe without a shadow of doubt that Judas is in Hell and cannot be talked out of it. I just take the position that God is the final authority and let it go.

Was Judas not once saved so he must be always saved,remember Jesus did hand pick him,what does the OSOS group think of this ???

 

[JohnWilliams]

Was Judas not once saved so he must be always saved,remember Jesus did hand pick him,what does the OSOS group think of this ???

I think we can entertain the possibility that perhaps he was not “once saved”, based on his actions. I am not saying that Christians don’t sin. I am saying that when a person is truly saved and repentent their actions, and works, are a natural result of that. We shouldn’t have to make an effort of works because they should come automatically through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I believe there may be more than a few, of all denominations, who go through their lives believing themselves to be saved that might be in for a rude surprise.

For example a person that thinks he can go into a Protestant Church and say a sinners prayer, and automatically be saved without repentence, may be surprised.
Or a Catholic that believes that all he has to do is shiffle into Church every Sunday and take communion, and maybe work a few hours a week in an old folks home, perhaps the same.

 

[Sixtus]

Go dis infinitely merciful and in infinitely just and infinitely good.

I think that even now, if we petitioned Almighty God and asked for mercy for our brother Judas [for that is what he is] then God would not only hear our prayer but grant us what we ask.

Do we not have a duty to pray for all our brothers and sisters in their distress? That includes Judas.

It is not given to us to judge. Only to love Mat 7:1-2,

By the Lords OWN command. Praying for Judas is a very noble prayer intention

 

[jim1130]

Recently, Pope Benedict XVI said this of Judas Iscariot: “Although he departed afterward to hang himself, it is not for us to judge his gesture, putting ourselves in God’s place, who is infinitely merciful and just.”

When speaking of Judas or anyone who sins, Pope Benedict XVI quoted Chapter 5 of the Rule of St. Benedict, “he should never despair of God’s mercy,” because, as St. John said, “God is greater than our hearts.”

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

One of the great Catholic Church Fathers, Saint John Chrysostom, says that Judas is not in hell. He says that Judas hung himself in sorrow and shame in order to be able to meet with our Lord in the next world and beg His forgiveness.

Saint John may or may not be correct but it is a very generous thought and one we can share.

PS: I am not Roman Catholic but Orthodox and just happened to see your question. I have learnt in the Eastern Christianity section that the Catholic Church will not say that anybody in particular is in hell.

 

[Atreyu]

PS: I am not Roman Catholic but Orthodox and just happened to see your question. I have learnt in the Eastern Christianity section that the Catholic Church will not say that anybody in particular is in hell.

Is this true of the Eastern Orthodox also, father?

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

PS: I am not Roman Catholic but Orthodox and just happened to see your question. I have learnt in the Eastern Christianity section that the Catholic Church will not say that anybody in particular is in hell.

Is this true of the Eastern Orthodox also, father?

Not quite. The liturgical books for the Sunday when we commemorate the Holy Fathers of the First Ecumenical Council teach that Arius the Arch-heretic is in hell. Apart from him, the Orthodox would not say that anyone is in hell.

 

[tequilamac]

Not quite. The liturgical books for the Sunday when we commemorate the Holy Fathers of the First Ecumenical Council teach that Arius the Arch-heretic is in hell. Apart from him, the Orthodox would not say that anyone is in hell.

Did you know in our society it is common to make fun of the indecisive? Well, he could be in hell, but then maybe not. I do not believe the Roman Church ever claimed that arius was in hell. He might have repented secretly when no one knew. Or God might be waiting to show his tremendous mercy by showing us he is not in hell. The Romans are more indecisive than the Orthodox. For instance we absolutely refuse to state absolutely who is in Heaven. The best we do is canonize people and say they look like good candidates for the upper levels. We cannot decide who is in Heaven or who is in Hell. And then of course there is the Limbo of the Patriarchs and the limbo of the children and Purgatory. Enough to drive the American corporate world insane. No wonder Catholicism does not run the USA. Imagine working at IBM and not being able to decide who should be hired and fired.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Did you know in our society it is common to make fun of the indecisive? Well, he could be in hell, but then maybe not. I do not believe the Roman Church ever claimed that arius was in hell.

Of course it did.

The liturgical texts proclaiming that he is in hell were created in the early centuries of the Church at the time when the Pope of Rome was in control of it all.

 

[tequilamac]

Of course it did.

The liturgical texts proclaiming that he is in hell were created in the early centuries of the Church at the time when the Pope of Rome was in control of it all.

I don’t believe it. He might have repented. He might have asked God’s forgiveness. He might be in purgatory. He might have been inculpably ignorant. God might be more merciful than we know. We do not know the whole story. We are not supposed to judge. We do not even know if Hitler…or Pol Pot… Or Judas Iscariot…

 

[Rocky]

I disagree with your statement, tequilamac. Once a deceased from this life person has gone through the canonization process in the Catholic Church, the Church firmly teaches that that person is living in glory with Jesus and all the saints in heaven.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

The Romans are more indecisive than the Orthodox. For instance we absolutely refuse to state absolutely who is in Heaven. The best we do is canonize people and say they look like good candidates for the upper levels. We cannot decide who is in Heaven or who is in Hell.

Canonisation is an exercise of papal infallibility. People tend to overlook this. To say that a canonised person may not be in heaven would be a denial of the Pope’s infallibility.

 

[tequilamac]

I disagree with your statement, tequilamac. Once a deceased from this life person has gone through the canonization process in the Catholic Church, the Church firmly teaches that that person is living in glory with Jesus and all the saints in heaven.

This is the generally accepted opinion and action, yes. this is what we hope for, yes. Which is why we pray to saints, yes and ask for their intercession. But the Bull of Canonization, issued by the Pope, which is considered infallible, does not say they are in heaven.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"What is the object of this infallible judgment of the pope? Does he define that the person canonized is in heaven or only that he has practiced Christian virtues in an heroic degree? I have never seen this question discussed; my own opinion is that nothing else is defined than that the person canonized is in heaven. The formula used in the act of canonization has nothing more than this:

“In honour of . . . we decree and define that Blessed N. is a Saint, and we inscribe his name in the catalogue of saints, and order that his memory by devoutly and piously celebrated yearly on the . . . day of . . . his feast.”
(Ad honorem . . . beatum N. Sanctum esse decernimus et definimus ac sanctorum catalogo adscribimus statuentes ab ecclesiâ universali illius memoriam quolibet anno, die ejus natali . . . piâ devotione recoli debere.)"

newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm

 

[tequilamac]

Canonisation is an exercise of papal infallibility. People tend to overlook this. To say that a canonised person may not be in heaven would be a denial of the Pope’s infallibility.

The Bull of Canonization issued infallibly by the Pope does not say the saint is in heaven or simply exercised holy virtues heroically. What the Bull of Canonization simply says infallibly is that the Blessed is now declared a saint and orders their feast day to be celebrated on such and such day.

sorry. while we profess the Communion of Saints and we believe they are in Heaven, in the Canonization process, the Church simply does not say “They are absolutely in Heaven without doubt”. The criteria is whether they practiced holy virtues to a heroic degree, but it also does not say that. It simply declares the person a saint and says venerate on this day. That is all.