Judas received Communion?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Unvrsl_Sldr
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree with elvisman,

Judas left before the Sacrament was offered.

John 13:26-27…Jesus gives the MORSEL to Judas (This was probably a bitter herb dipped in salt water) it was NOT the Eucharist. Then IMMEDIATELY after eating the morsel Judas leaves.

Matthew 26:20-25…Jesus says the one who dips his hand into the dish with Me is the betrayer…Then verse 26 begins the establishment of the Eucharist.

Mark 14:17-21…Same sequence as Matthew with the one who dips with Me into the dish…then verse 22 begins the Eucharist.

Luke seems to devlop the two themes independently.
Luke 22:14-20 Jesus establishes the Eucharist.
then verse 21 through 23, He talks about His betrayer.
But uses some of the same wording,(Matthew and Mark) saying the betrayer is with Me at table.

In my opinion at least, I think its very clear from Scripture that Jesus did not give the Eucharist to Judas. You cannot imply this. Besides it would be a serious sin for Jesus to have done this. Which is proof enough that Judas did not participate in the Lord’s Supper.

Thanks

Joe.
 
40.png
ricatholic:
Actually I don’t put myself in Jesus’ place, it is just that I personally have a great deal of confidence in Him and feel that He is probably capable of handling some people who may not be as worthy as we may feel is required.

As far as relativism goes, the concept of worthiness to receive the Eucharist is from Paul, whose writings must be viewed in the context of the audience to which he was speaking, that is esentially relativism. So if you use the most relativistic source to make a policy, then it is a little odd to then acuse someone else of using the same tactic.

As far as scandal goes, I have yet to hear about people staying away from church because it is sharing Jesus with those that are unworthy, despite the hew and cry from some corners about giving Jesus to sinners.

Peace
Click to expand...
The rules for Communion come from Christ through His Prime Minister JPII, you reject those and make yourself the rule maker…relativism.

You spin the situation. It is not about giving Jesus to sinners, it is about profaning the sacrament by giving Communion to manifest public sinners. They spit on Christ. You have no authority to change Christ’s rules.
 
40.png
fix:
The rules for Communion come from Christ through His Prime Minister JPII, you reject those and make yourself the rule maker…relativism.

You spin the situation. It is not about giving Jesus to sinners, it is about profaning the sacrament by giving Communion to manifest public sinners. They spit on Christ. You have no authority to change Christ’s rules.
Click to expand...
People spit on Christ when they don’t treat the least like they may be Jesus. People spit on Christ when they deny Jesus from those that may benefit from Him.

I do spin the situation, but show how I contradict Jesus with my spin. You may say my views are not Paulian , but please show where they are unChristlike.

Peace
 
was asked by a non-Catholic Christians about Judas being offered communion by Jesus. Did he partake in this, and if so, why did Jesus offer it to him if he knew he was a Devil?
Click to expand...
Ok heres the deal
  1. It isnt known for sure if Judas took the Eucharist at all, but it seems likely.
    2)Judas presumably didnt have any mortal sin on his soul when he partook of the Eucharist.
  2. God knows everyone who will sin. He knew that Judas would betray him. We arent any exception. So if we eat the Eucharist and God knows we will commit mortal sin that evening, God doesnt intervene. He lets us take it (because he doesnt interfere with free will) and the consequences of the sin fall upon us.
  3. The consequences of sin are greater if we took the great sacrament (Eucharist) prior to committing the sin. The sacrament is like an agreement. God will give you special graces to withstand temptation, so long as your free will keeps its part of the deal (to not sin). To infringe on this deal has enormous consequences. And since the Eucharist is so much greater than all other sacraments, it is very important we make the best use of it and do NOT sin after recieving it. (If you are interested I suggest reading Swear to God by Scott Hahn)
    5)If Jesus stopped him from taking Communion, then I guess he shouldve also stopped Peter from taking it because he would deny him later on. And I suppose he would stop us from taking the Eucharist when he knew that we would sin in the future. But God doesnt work that way. He gives us free reign over our descision, for good or for worse.
 
40.png
ricatholic:
People spit on Christ when they don’t treat the least like they may be Jesus. People spit on Christ when they deny Jesus from those that may benefit from Him.
Click to expand...
No one benefits if they eat unworthily, in fact, they eat their own damnation.
I do spin the situation, but show how I contradict Jesus with my spin. You may say my views are not Paulian , but please show where they are unChristlike.
Click to expand...
There is no dichotomy betwen Paul’s words and Christ’s. Are you saying paul got it wrong?
 
40.png
Buckeyejoe:
I agree with elvisman,

Judas left before the Sacrament was offered.

John 13:26-27…Jesus gives the MORSEL to Judas (This was probably a bitter herb dipped in salt water) it was NOT the Eucharist. Then IMMEDIATELY after eating the morsel Judas leaves.

Matthew 26:20-25…Jesus says the one who dips his hand into the dish with Me is the betrayer…Then verse 26 begins the establishment of the Eucharist.

Mark 14:17-21…Same sequence as Matthew with the one who dips with Me into the dish…then verse 22 begins the Eucharist.

Luke seems to devlop the two themes independently.
Luke 22:14-20 Jesus establishes the Eucharist.
then verse 21 through 23, He talks about His betrayer.
But uses some of the same wording,(Matthew and Mark) saying the betrayer is with Me at table.

In my opinion at least, I think its very clear from Scripture that Jesus did not give the Eucharist to Judas. You cannot imply this. Besides it would be a serious sin for Jesus to have done this. Which is proof enough that Judas did not participate in the Lord’s Supper.

Thanks

Joe.
Click to expand...
Remember, all four Gospels give the account of the Last Supper – the institution of the Eucharist. You have to put all of them together to get the complete understanding.

Matthew 26:17-30
Jesus specifically says that the one who dips his hand [with the bread of the Eucharist] in the bowl will betray Him. Judas says, “Surely not I, Rabbi” and Jesus says, “Yes, it is you”. Then Jesus consecrated the Eucharist and gave it to all of them.

Mark 14:12-26
Jesus says that, “one of you will betray me–one who is eating with me."
Then Jesus consecrated the Eucharist and gave it to all of them.

Luke 22:7-23
Jesus consecrated the Eucharist and gave it to all of them.
After he took the cup Jesus said, “But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.”

John gives two accounts, one in John 6 where he points out that Judas was one of those that did not believe in the words of Jesus about eating His body and blood and the other is:
John 13: 1-30
Jesus says, “‘He who shares my bread has lifted up his heel against me.’”
Then Jesus says, “I tell you the truth, one of you is going to betray me."
John asked Jesus, “Lord, who is it?” 26Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. …. 30As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

So we see that as soon as Judas took the bread of the Eucharist Satan entered him and he left to go betray Jesus. Why?

Because at that moment he brought down judgment upon himself because according to 1 Corinthians 11:28-30,

“anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.”

Continued…
 
40.png
Buckeyejoe:
Besides it would be a serious sin for Jesus to have done this. Which is proof enough that Judas did not participate in the Lord’s Supper.
Click to expand...
Your statement goes against the Eucharistic theology of the Catholic Church.

Christ through the Priest offers the Eucharist to all his body. It is up to us to receive Him worthily and in a state of grace. Christ does not ever deny anyone the Eucharist. That is the role of the Priest or Bishop and only if the person is in public sin. If someone takes it in an unworthy manner, as Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 11 then that person eats and drinks judgment on themselves. You are trying to turn this around and put the judgment on Christ for giving the person the Eucharist when Christ knows they are unworthy! That is the complete opposite of what the Church teaches. The only time a Priest can deny the Eucharist is if the person is openly and publicly going against the clear teaching of the Church on a doctrine that binds the conscience of the believer and if it is clear that by going against this that person is in a state of public mortal sin. That is the very issue that is being discussed by the Bishops today. That is far different then the state of Judas who was in a state of private and personal mortal sin. Paul teaches that Jesus does offer Himself to those that are in a state of mortal sin and who take the Eucharist in an unworthy manner. That is why Paul teaches us not to do this. That is way Paul says that, “Many of you are sick and have died because you have done this”. Remember what happened to Judas? It led to his death, just as Paul said it can.

-Ric
 
The Gospel of John does not have the words of the institution of the Eucharist but John shows the eating of the Eucharistic meal.

John 13:26 says, “Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.” Verse 30 says, “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.”
So if Judas had left earlier, before the consecration then that would be in direct conflict with Luke 22:7-23 because after Jesus consecrated the bread and gave it to all of them, he took the cup and said, “But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.”

This proves that the bread that Judas took and dipped in the bowl was the Eucharistic bread! And why else then did John point out that that is the exact moment when Satan entered him.

Matthew 26 and Mark 14 do not say that Judas received any bread before the consecration. Please read the passages carefully. They both say that the one who dips the bread (or hand) in the bowl will be the one. Then the very next thing Jesus does in both Matthew and Mark is get out the bread, consecrate it and give it to them. John takes it from there in John 13:26.

Some people confuse the part when Jesus says that Judas will dip the bread Matthew 26:17 which is before the consecration, with the time that Judas actually takes the bread and dips it which isn’t until after the consecration because when Judas takes it, he leaves. John simply is describing the same Eucharistic meal, but leaves out the words of institution and focuses on the moment Jesus gives the Eucharist to Judas. Then after this Jesus says, “What you are about to do, do quickly,” (John 13:28) That is when Judas went out to prepare to betray Him that night.

Augustine believes that Judas did in fact receive the Eucharist as also the scripture plainly teaches:

“In one part of his teaching St. Augustine is EMPHATIC that the identification of the elements WITH THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST is so COMPLETE that even the WICKED recipients of the Sacrament receive Christ’s body and blood as REALLY, though with different effects, AS THOSE who partake of the Sacrament WORTHILY.”

Thus in his book -On Baptism against the Donatists- he says –

“For as JUDAS, to whom the Lord gave the sop, allowed place in himself to the devil not by receiving what was evil but by receiving in an evil WAY, so one who receives the Sacrament of the Lord unworthily does not bring about that it is evil because he is evil or that he has received nothing because he has not received to salvation. For it is THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD NO LESS in the case of those of whom the Apostle said, “Who eats unworthily and drinks judgment to himself”’ [5:9].
Similarly in one of his -Sermons- he insists that it is possible to ‘EAT THE VERY FLESH’ and ‘DRINK THE VERY BLOOD’ of Christ in such a way as to ‘eat and drink judgment,’ and that there are two ways of ‘eating that flesh and drinking that blood,’ one of which leads to the recipient abiding in Christ and Christ in him, the other of which leads to judgment [Serm 71:17].”​

-Ric
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top