Judas' role in salvation history

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It is my understanding that, according to St. Thomas Aquinas, salvation history was revealed to satan and the angels before the fall… that his rejection of it is what lead to the fall.

Im sure that the question that I have has already been beat like a dead horse, but I can’t seem to find the answer. That question is, why did satan prompt the betrayal and subsequent crucifixion/resurrection of Christ, in fulfillment of God’s plan and knowing (presumably) the outcome?
 
Satan is only allowed to do what God allows him, see Job. He is simply a tool in God’s salvation plan. He tempts who God allows him to tempt, and prompts who God allows. He wants to cause evil, so God let’s him do that at the times God finds it beneficial.
 
Yes but why would he do that which he knows is beneficial to God? Why would he willingly serve God’s purpose?
God allows him to do it, He doesn’t force him to do it.
 
ThomasMT said:
It is my understanding that, according to St. Thomas Aquinas, salvation history was revealed to satan and the angels before the fall… that his rejection of it is what lead to the fall.

Im sure that the question that I have has already been beat like a dead horse, but I can’t seem to find the answer. That question is, why did satan prompt the betrayal and subsequent crucifixion/resurrection of Christ, in fulfillment of God’s plan and knowing (presumably) the outcome?
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St. Thomas Aquinas, S.T. III Q8 A7
Reply to Objection 2. A governor does not always suggest to his subjects to obey his will; but proposes to all the sign of his will, in consequence of which some are incited by inducement, and some of their own free-will, as is plain in the leader of an army, whose standard all the soldiers follow, though no one persuades them. Therefore in the same way, the first sin of the devil, who “sinneth from the beginning” (1 John 3:8), is held out to all to be followed, and some imitate at his suggestion, and some of their own will without any suggestion. And hence the devil is the head of all the wicked, inasmuch as they imitate Him, according to Wisdom 2:24-25: “By the envy of the devil, death came into the world. And they follow him that are of his side.”
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https://www.newadvent.org/summa/4008.htm
 
ThomasMT said:
Yes but why would he do that which he knows is beneficial to God? Why would he willingly serve God’s purpose?
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Reflect on this and you may find some insight:
God called him Satan the Adversary, because matter opposeth spirit, and time accuseth even the saints of the Lord.

And the Destroyer, for his arm breaketh and grindeth to pieces; wherefore the fear and the dread of him are upon all flesh.

And the Avenger, for he is the anger of God; his breath shall burn up all the souls of the wicked.

And the Sifter, for he straineth all things through his sieve, dividing the husk from the grain; discovering the thoughts of the heart; proving and purifying the spirit of man.

And the Deceiver, for he maketh the false appear true, and concealeth the real under the mask of Illusion.

And the Tempter, for he setteth snares before the feet of the elect: he beguileth with vain shows, and seduceth with enchantments.

Blessed are they who withstand his subtlety: they shall be called the Sons of God, and shall enter in at the beautiful gates.

For Satan is the doorkeeper of the Temple of the King: he standeth in Solomon’s porch; he holdeth the Keys of the Sanctuary;

[…]

For Satan is the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom.

[…]

Stand in awe of him and sin not: speak his name with trembling; and beseech God daily to deliver thee.

For Satan is the magistrate of the justice of God: he beareth the balance and the sword,

To execute judgment and vengeance upon all who come short of the commandments of God; to weigh their works, to measure their desire, and to number their days,

For to him are committed Weight and Measure and Number.

And all things must pass under the rod and through the balance, and be fathomed by the sounding-lead.

Therefore Satan is the minister of God, Lord of the seven mansions of Hades, the angel of the manifest worlds. [cf. 2 Cor 4:4]

And God hath put a girdle about his loins, and the name of the girdle is Death.

Threefold are its coils, for threefold is the power of Death, dissolving the body, the ghost, and the soul.

And that girdle is black within, but where Phoibos strikes it is silver.

None of the Gods is girt save Satan, for upon him only is the shame of generation.

He hath lost his virginal estate: uncovering heavenly secrets, he hath entered into bondage.

He encompasseth with bonds and limits all things which are made: he putteth chains round about the worlds, and determineth their orbits.

By him are creation and appearance; by him birth and transformation; the day of begetting and the night of death.

The glory of Satan is the shadow of the Lord: the throne of Satan is the footstool of Adonai.

Twain are the armies of God: in heaven the hosts of Michael; in the abyss the legions of Satan.

These are the unmanifest and the manifest; the free and the bound; the virginal and the fallen.

And both are the ministers of the Father, fulfilling the Word divine.

– Anna Kingsford, The Perfect Way; Or the Finding of Christ
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White_Tree said:
Reflect on this and you may find some insight:
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Thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your effort. However…

I pose the question in search of armor against this very type of insight. It seems that Kingsford wrote this after her conversion to Catholicism. Yet, gnostic and new age overtones seem to influence her thinking. Have none of the saints or Church Fathers produced reflections worth echoing?
 
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Probably because Satan can’t help himself. As soon as there is an opportunity to do evil he will go ahead and do it, regardless of the outcome. Just like when I read lives of the saints, Satan seems to always tempt them and gain nothing from it. In my book, he is not smart.
 
Private revelation here, so take it as you will. In “The Mystical City of God” by The Venerable Mary of Jesus of Ágreda, this is explained.

Book three, read starting around 677.

“Lucifer and his demons in the course of the life and miracles of our Savior, never could ascertain fully whether the Lord was true God and Redeemer of the world.”

And, let’s be honest, with God’s infinite wisdom and our limited, none of us would have though too of what would happen. And I think Satan, too. If all of us didn’t know of the Gospels, and had to guess what God would do to redeem the human race, who among us would have thought taking human flesh, living in poverty, being meek and humble, allowing Himself to be falsely accused, and put to death in the most tortureas method known at the time? Satan never had any clue God would do anything like that.

In 716, Satan says “In persuading Judas to betray Him, and the Jews to subject Him to the deadly torture of the Cross, I merely hastened my ruin and the salvation of men, while the doctrine I sought to blot out was only the more firmly implanted. How could One who is God humiliate Himself to such an extent? How could He bear so much from men who are evil?”

Someone with that much pride could never understand.
 
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ThomasMT said:
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Dan_Defender:
In my book, he is not smart.
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A very dangerous assumption to make.
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ok let me rephrase that. He is smarter than me for sure, but not that smart in his strategy it seems. 🙂
 
This makes sense. However, one has to assume then that the revelation to satan of salvation history, in the beginning, was reasonably limited.
 
ThomasMT said:
I pose the question in search of armor against this very type of insight.
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If I may ask, what is it about this type of insight that troubles you? I’m not quite sure what you mean when you say it has “gnostic and new age overtones,” or what trouble that poses if it coincides with the Bible.

The message is consistent with the portrayal of Satan in the Book of Job. In that book, Satan walks freely in the presence of God (cf. Job 1:6 and 2:1). And as @Mythicalbio has pointed out, he touches only whom God tells him to touch, and only to the degree that God commands him to do so (cf Job 1:12 and 2:6).
 
That is in book 1. The entire series is available in .pdf on the Internet. I forgot where I got it from, but being hundreds of years old it is in the public domain and can be downloaded morally.
 
Honestly, I struggle with the line of discussion that I am tempted to pursue for fear of offending God. My philosophical musings on the matter make me feel like I’m walking along a tight knife-edge, where I face the abyss of blasphemy on both sides. I appreciate your inquiry, but I need an evening or two to ponder on it.
 
ThomasMT said:
Respectfully, I don’t grasp how this answers my question.
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You wrote: “why did satan prompt the betrayal and subsequent crucifixion/resurrection of Christ, in fulfillment of God’s plan and knowing (presumably) the outcome?”

The answer is “some are incited by inducement, and some of their own free-will”. Which is to say, there is no requrirement that Judas was induced to evil, it could have been in his own free-will.
 
ThomasMT said:
Honestly, I struggle with the line of discussion that I am tempted to pursue for fear of offending God. My philosophical musings on the matter make me feel like I’m walking along a tight knife-edge, where I face the abyss of blasphemy on both sides. I appreciate your inquiry, but I need an evening or two to ponder on it.
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Understood. Do what makes you comfortable, and take whatever time you need. 🙂
 
ThomasMT, God is the Architect and Creator of the Universe, includes this world and we are all humans, angels, Satan, Judas, His builders.
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CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
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CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will.
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GOD DESIGNED, DECREED, PREORDAINED EVERY EVENT FROM ALL ETERNITY which events He tailor-made to everyone us includes every angels, Satan, Judas, etc.

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Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”
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CCC 310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin. – God created the dramas of evil and sin for our benefit.

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THE REASON GOD CREATED THE DRAMAS OF EVIL AND SIN.

Life without suffering would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.

Our struggle and tribulation while journeying towards our ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin is the cost which in-prints the virtue/ nobility into our souls – the cost of our road to nobility and perfection.

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii, xv in “P.L., VII, 115-24. St. Augustine “De ordine”, I, n. 18 in “P.L.”, XXXII, 986).

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;

“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

“His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

All events preordained by God in accordance with His all-embracing purpose.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design” (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit.,

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things. He loves all men, desires the salvation of all, and His providence extends to all nation.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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CCC 324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
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God bless
 
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I don’t think Satan knew the how of salvation, not until it was too late.
 
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