Judas & The Eucharist

[Jaguar]

Why did Jesus give Judas the Blessed Sacrament, at the last supper? Was he not in a state of mortal sin at the time?

 

[srferdave]

Why did Jesus give Judas the Blessed Sacrament, at the last supper? Was he not in a state of mortal sin at the time?

I thought Judas was gone before Jesus gave his Body and Blood to them. Also, he had not yet betrayed Jesus if that’s what your referring to as his mortal sin.

 

[zagjames]

Jesus did give Judas communion. Immediatly upon recieving communion he ran out. Couldn’t even wait for the closing benediction and hymn… tsk…

 

[KennC]

Judas & The Eucharist

I’ve lways felt this is why Paul issued the warning he did concerning receiving the Body and Blood of Christ in an unworthy manner.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I found an interesting discussion on blog site:
Did Jesus deny sinners communion?:

Original Words Here

In looking at the Scriptures, I would say it’s a little unclear whether Jesus gave first Holy Communion to Judas. Remember that the first Mass took place during a Seder meal, meaning that, in addition to the elements consecrated by Jesus as His Body and Blood, other alimentary elements were also consumed (i.e., Mk. 14:18 – “And while they were at table eating…”).

St. Mark and St. Matthew clearly separate out Judas’ betrayal as prior to the words of consecration (see Mtt. 26:20-39 and Mk. 14:17-31). It is true, however, that in St. Luke’s Gospel – but only in this Gospel – the mention of Judas’ betrayal of Jesus takes place after the celebration of the first Mass. But since St. Luke is considered more of a compiler of prior sources, whereas Ss. Matthew and Mark are the very prior sources on which St. Luke may have relied, I believe the chronology expressed in these first two Gospels would more closely adhere to what took place. When these considerations are added to the fact that, in St. John’s Gospel, Judas leaves after taking the dipped morsal (see Jn. 13:30) but before what is traditionally considered the first Eucharistic prayer (see Jn. 17), it seems quite clear that Judas was present for the Seder meal but made his exit before the first Mass took place.

James

 

[Evan]

Why did Jesus give Judas the Blessed Sacrament, at the last supper? Was he not in a state of mortal sin at the time?

Who are we to judge the state of Judas’ soul. We cannot determine if someone is in the state of Mortal Sin. That is between each person and God.

Since he had not yet betrayed him, there was still the possibility that he may turn aside. The possibility of repentance.

 

[Jaguar]

Who are we to judge the state of Judas’ soul. We cannot determine if someone is in the state of Mortal Sin. That is between each person and God.

Since he had not yet betrayed him, there was still the possibility that he may turn aside. The possibility of repentance.

Evan - I agree, but in this case it was Christ, who knew he (Judas) would turn aside.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Who are we to judge the state of Judas’ soul. We cannot determine if someone is in the state of Mortal Sin. That is between each person and God.

Since he had not yet betrayed him, there was still the possibility that he may turn aside. The possibility of repentance.

This is a legitimate question since it has implications on if one should give the Eucharist to one in sin if one really knows they are in sin. Judas was contemplating betraying Jesus for some time and Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him. The serious contemplation of the betrayal would have been a mortal sin. It is unconscionable that Jesus would have given Him his body, blood, soul and divinity to Judas if he was in an unworthy state since that would have been assisting in the commission of a sacralege. Therefor only a few things make any sense here:

1. The last supper was a symbolic act that was prefiguring the crucifixion and what was to be available in the sacrament of Eucharist after the resurrection. Or
2. One of the gospels that has Judas receiving the bread of life after the words of consecration are spoken is not 100% temporally accurate in sequence of events (just as we have different gospel accounts of how and when Judas killed himself)
3. Jesus could not commit a sin nor defile his own offering of self by giving the Eucharist to Judas even while in a contemplative state of sin
4. Judas did not really contemplate fully carrying out the betrayal of Jesus until after receiving the consecrated bread until after he ate it and was not in mortal sin.

Note too that all venial sins were forgiven by Jesus in the ritual act of penance implied in the washing of the disciples feet. It is possible that this was also sufficient to forgive Judas of a mortal sin of contemplation but we do not have that much insight from scripture alone.

James

 

[srferdave]

Evan - I agree, but in this case it was Christ, who knew he (Judas) would turn aside.

But the fact is, he had not yet commited the sin. God always knows whats going to happen. If I receive communion and then go commit a mortal sin, I was not wrong to receive communion. God knew that I was going to commit a mortal sin but receiving communion was still ok.

Let me add, before receiving communion I did not have the intent to commit mortal sin.

 

[victus]

Why did Jesus give Judas the Blessed Sacrament, at the last supper? Was he not in a state of mortal sin at the time?

The question is, did Judas know it to be mortally sinful of betraying Jesus? If not, then would it be a Venial Sin.

 

[CentralFLJames]

The question is, did Judas know it to be mortally sinful of betraying Jesus? If not, then would it be a Venial Sin.

OMG yes - he had to have know what he was doing was grave betrayal.

Judas as a disciple of Jesus knew personally that the Jewish authorities and die hard orthodox were already trying to kill Jesus. By turning Jesus over he had to know that he was putting Jesus at risk of being put to death. There are some who speculate that Judas really did believe that Jesus was a great prophet or the Messiah but did not approve of Jesus’ tactics of peacefully trying to overcome God’s enemies and all this “love your enemy talk”. So some think Judas wanted to force Jesus to defend himself and use his divine powers to do that and manifest himself as the Messiah and force the Jews to crown him king. Judas we a zealot who wanted a militant Jewish nation to rise up and crush the enemies of the Jews (the Romans). The problem is in both cases Judas was putting God to the test and if speculation is true then Judas was gambling with Jesus’ life at risk or trying to impose his own will on God! This is utter vanity, pride and treachery.

James

 

[jjformica]

Judas’s sin was despair, which caused him to take his own life. He did not trust in God’s mercy.

 

[victus]

This article convinced me that Judas was not there.

lacopts.org/index.php?/site/entry/258/

 

[CentralFLJames]

This article convinced me that Judas was not there.

lacopts.org/index.php?/site/entry/258/

Thanks Victus. I learned something new from this article. It always has bothered me how Judas, a man who at one time completely trusted in Jesus and followed him could change to become his enemy so abruptly and without warning from Jesus. It would have been incumbent for Jesus to share his foreknowledge with Judas that he would betray him as Jesus did with Peter to give an opportunity to avoid temptation and repent.

This part of the article really meant a lot to me.
from referenced article:

**What You do, Do Quickly”: **

The Lord, pitied Judas, and tried to prevent him from carrying out the betrayal. He also awaited his repentance. Christ warned Judas several times, and even went to the extent of declaring His knowledge of His betrayal by Judas to him. However, when Judas took the piece of bread and did not deviate from his evil intentions, Satan entered him and he refused the Lord’s advice and warning. Subsequently, the Lord told him, “What you do, do quickly.” (Jn 13:27). In other words, Christ implied, ‘If you are insisting on betrayal, do not remain on the table from which only the pure who are washed by repentance will partake. If you intend to repent, this should be carried out quickly and before the institution of the Lord’s Supper which is now ready to commence.’ Instead, Judas went out quickly guided by the the devil who had possessed his heart.

After reading the article the phrase **"What You do, Do Quickly” ** makes more sense. Contrary to what a fundamentalist read might suggest it is not an admonishment at all nor an imperative commandment as one might read it. Jesus certainly would not willfully and actively participate in the commission of a sin or crime of any kind - not even to facilitate scripture nor even to put the sin on himself. Jesus’ statement is really an invitation to Judas to repent - to choose one way or the other his choice in the matter he contemplates. Jesus is saying ‘quickly repent from what you are contemplating or seperate yourself from the fellowship and blessings I am about to give to those that are my loyal disciples’. I can’t help but recollect an OT scripture reference here: SIRACH 16-17 He has set before you fire and water; reach out and take which you choose; before man lie life and death, and whichever he prefers is his.

Clearly Judas chose fire and left quickly and did not partake of the consecrated Eucharist - only in the passover meal.

James

 

[victus]

This part of the article really meant a lot to me.

After reading the article the phrase **"What You do, Do Quickly” ** makes more sense. Contrary to what a fundamentalist read might suggest it is not an admonishment at all nor an imperative commandment as one might read it. Jesus certainly would not willfully and actively participate in the commission of a sin or crime of any kind - not even to facilitate scripture nor even to put the sin on himself. Jesus’ statement is really an invitation to Judas to repent - to choose one way or the other his choice in the matter he contemplates. Jesus is saying ‘quickly repent from what you are contemplating or seperate yourself from the fellowship and blessings I am about to give to those that are my loyal disciples’. I can’t help but recollect an OT scripture reference here: SIRACH 16-17 He has set before you fire and water; reach out and take which you choose; before man lie life and death, and whichever he prefers is his.

Clearly Judas chose fire and left quickly and did not partake of the consecrated Eucharist - only in the passover meal.

James

Wow, I love that choice of scripture, it really does pertain to what you wrote. Because of you writing this I was now able to see the same thing you did. When I first read the article I was just looking for one thing in mind, was Judas there or not? So I looked at the article with that on my mind. But now I need to look at the article again and to see the other things that I might not have picked up on from before. That was well said by you and the Coptic Bishop.

 

[ChrisWRIT]

I agree with the article that Judas likely didn’t receive the Eucharist, although I arrived at that conclusion just before seeing the article by comparing the various gospel accounts of the last supper.

Mark & Matthew both describe Jesus identification of the one who would betray him, and show that the Eucharist was not given until afterward.

Neither specifically state when Judas left, but Luke shows that Judas left immediately after being identified.

Luke 13:18-30 shows that immediately after Jesus dipped the bread and gave it to Judas, Judas left to do “what you are about to do”.

The gospels don’t include specifically who received the Eucharist, but they do seem to indicate that Judas left immediately beforehand.

The article lays out the reasoning more completely than I did, though.

Chris

 

[Jaguar]

All of this was very helpful. Thanks to all of you!