Judas

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Cruxis117

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Hey everyone. This may be in the wrong forum thread area, but anyways…

We all know the part of the Gospel where Judas Iscariot betrays Jesus, which leads to his crucifixion. I’ve heard of many different thoughts about whether he went to hell, whether he repented, etc, etc. But I’ve been thinking about something. Isn’t it possible that Judas was pre-destined to do that? Then again, that prevents free will. What I mean, is that isn’t the Crucifixion and Resurrection predestined events by God? So wouldn’t Judas have been necessary, so that Christ would fulfill the prophecies and that the whole Resurrection and everything else would take place? What do you think?
 
God did not consciously will Judas to be Jesus’ betrayer. Rather God knew who His betrayer was going to be, and what choices Judas would make despite living and traveling with Jesus for His three year ministry. So the prophecy simply foretells the events that will happen; it does not set those events in motion.

Well in regards to the Crucifixion and resurrection, I think God consciously willed these things, and decided to act on His own initiative to save humanity, and the fact that Jesus would be betrayed by Judas was just something that would happen, not that God wanted Judas to commit such a horrible sin, but He knew it that Judas would do it of his own free will, and prophecy was written about that choice that Judas would make.
 
I see your point.

However, even in prophecy, the Jews believed that their Messiah would be 100% human. A warrior king like David or the Maccabees who would again battle back the Roman occupation and return Judaism to its former glory.

Which is interesting, the Maccabee family must not have been from David’s ancestral line.

Jews didn’t know that the fulfillment of the prophecys would have worldwide significance both on earth and in heaven and that it would encompass the Jews and the pagans throughout the remaining history of the world.

Our free wills are God’s blessing (which we easily turn into a curse).
 
Good question!
I do know that Judas had a free will, but then if no one had betrayed Jesus, then He wouldn’t have been crucified. And Jesus also had a free will and did ask His Father if this could be taken away and Him not have to go through with it, but agreed that God’s will be done. Maybe God, all knowing, knew it would all happen this way ahead of time and just let it proceed.
Like I said, good question, and I will look foreward to the answers you recieve.
 
Judas could have repented and reclaimed his place among the 12. But he committed suicide instead, which all but ensured his final destination.
 
But, back to your point, that our destiny’s might be prewritten by God.

To believe that, it also presupposes that we all are in some part God’s automatons :o

I don’t believe that, I myself go to God alone, for all the good and the bad I’ve done.

Even at my worst, no one pushed me, I took the free will and made myself my own God.

The fault is all on me.
 
Barbkw said:
But, back to your point, that our destiny’s might be prewritten by God.

To believe that, it also presupposes that we all are in some part God’s automatons :o

I don’t believe that, I myself go to God alone, for all the good and the bad I’ve done.

Even at my worst, no one pushed me, I took the free will and made myself my own God.

The fault is all on me.
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I completely agree. I don’t actually believe that God predestines our futures. But I do believe that there are certain, important events that God has predestined. Such as the Resurrection, etc. I didn’t mean to sound Calvinist or any such heretical nonsense, but I just think that, Judas was important. I know that God does not delight in those who do evil or those who condemn themselves, but that Judas was the one that ultimately precipitated the entirety of the sequences that gave us our resurrected Lord and Savior. How I see it is that, yes, Judas acted on his free will, but it shows that even in the midst of a terrible evil (betrayal of your best friend and teacher, the crucifixion, etc) God’s grace, glory and love defeats such evil all the more. That’s how I see it anyways.
 
“But I do believe that there are certain, important events that God has predestined. Such as the Resurrection, etc.”

God the Father has had tens of thousands of years aiding His people. In a way, similar to fathers and mothers raising their children and predicting their behaviors. 🙂

We best understand salvation history (OT/NT) and the divinity of Christ through His resurrection.

Did Jesus’ life need to end on the cross for our salvation? What if, the ruling class of the Jews had accepted Jesus as their Messiah? We’ll never know. 😉
 
I found the answer at Wikipedia - Davidic Line - as to why the Maccabees were not considered the Jewish Messiah:

"After the death of King Solomon son of David, the ten northern tribes of the Kingdom of Israel rejected the Davidic line, refusing to accept Rehoboam son of Solomon, and instead chose as king Jeroboam and formed the northern Kingdom of Israel. This kingdom was eventually conquered by Assyria who exiled them, to disappear from history as The Ten Lost Tribes.

Also, the Hasmoneans, also known as the Maccabees, who were priests, (kohanim) from the Tribe of Levi, established a monarchy of their own in Judea following their revolt and war against the Hellenistic Seleucid dynasty. The Hasmoneans were not connected to the Davidic line that is attached to the Tribe of Judah. The Levites had always been excluded from the Israelite monarchy. When the Maccabees assumed the throne in order to re-dedicate the defiled Second Temple, a cardinal rule was nevertheless broken, and it has been considered to be contributing to their own downfall, and part of the eventual downfall of Judea and when internal strife brought in Rome and resulted in the violent non-Jewish Herod the Great becoming king, and eventually ended with the destruction of the Second Temple by the Roman Empire according to scholars within Orthodox Judaism."
 
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