Jude 1:4 what is he saying?

[Telstar]

It has been since that time, but Tetzel was sent specifically by the Pope to Germany for this purpose. It was commonplace.

If I remember correctly, it was typically a matter of indulgences being offered with several methods available to the faithful for obtaining those graces, including certain spiritual practices, prayers, pilgrimages, etc., that were required to be performed. Sometimes, they had to be done along with acts of charity, such as giving to the poor. But, giving money was not necessarily how that would be done. It could be the offering of food, shelter or clothing, too.

What the Pope did was ask that those particular indulgences that were problematic (which were basically seen as a way to “buy” one’s way into Heaven) were to be granted to those who would donate money to the cause, which led to the abuses that took place between those who were collecting the money and Rome. Along the way, many men were “taking a cut” of the proceeds. I think this is why the practice of requiring money as a means of gaining any indulgence was removed, afterward. It should never have been allowed in the first place. So, Luther was absolutely correct to oppose it.

He tried. The posting of “theses” for discussion at university was common, and engendered scholarly discussion. He went to the Bishop, who ignored him, the Pope ignored him, and the diet prosecuted him. No one wanted to listen to this “upstart”. Things might have gone differently if they had!

Exactly!

Not really. It took years for all this to come to a head. He was frustrated because the people that were supposed to preserve the faith did not want to listen.

I guess “right away” was the wrong phrase for me to use. Communication between Germany and Rome, or anywhere else, was a fairly slow process at that time, which certainly added to the problem. But, the fact that there was so much resistance from those who should have been on his side just added fuel to the fire.

He did quite a bit of this kind of preaching, but saw the “evils” as residing in the pope and bishops.

I realize that. I know that he didn’t want to leave. He loved the Church, but hated the corruption that he saw. It’s just sad that he didn’t have the determination to just keep banging on those doors until someone listened to him.

 

[guanophore]

If I remember correctly, it was typically a matter of indulgences being offered with several methods available to the faithful for obtaining those graces, including certain spiritual practices, prayers, pilgrimages, etc., that were required to be performed.

Yes you remember correctly! But the practice of giving monetary donations was so badly abused, that the Council of Trent discontinued it.

It should never have been allowed in the first place.

It has not always been abused, and it was customary to leave property and assets to the Church or to a monastery at the time of death. This is one reason the CC owned about 1/3 of Europe at the time. One of the driving forces of the Reformation was the chance for Protestant princes were eager to seize property, including monasteries and their contents.

But, the fact that there was so much resistance from those who should have been on his side just added fuel to the fire.

Yes, i think Rome vastly underestimated the power of the the political and economic conditions at the time.

It’s just sad that he didn’t have the determination to just keep banging on those doors until someone listened to him.

yes, or recognize that Jesus would reform his church in his own way, pray, fast, and demonstrate personal holiness.

 

[Telstar]

It has not always been abused, and it was customary to leave property and assets to the Church or to a monastery at the time of death. This is one reason the CC owned about 1/3 of Europe at the time. One of the driving forces of the Reformation was the chance for Protestant princes were eager to seize property, including monasteries and their contents.

True, but those instances were not typically given in exchange for any kind of “indulgence” to be granted. They were merely a pious action meant as a means to support the Church. There’s nothing wrong with donating goods or money to a local parish or monastery to help support it’s mission and give glory to God.

yes, or recognize that Jesus would reform his church in his own way, pray, fast, and demonstrate personal holiness.

Amen! It’s as if he was trying to accomplish the goal without the aid of the One Who had the real power to do it. Ironically, it was his own faith that failed him in the end.