Judgement of Others

[NolePaul2005]

Alright…

Im having another debate with these folks…this time on the topic of judging others. I know in the Bible, Christ says, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” These folks come back with this

Have you read John 7:24, or 1 Cor 2:15.
“The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.” (Psa 37:30)

“With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.” (Psa 119:13)

“Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.” (Prov 31:9)

Jesus commended Simon, “Thou hast rightly judged.” (Luke 7:43)

“Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations.” (Ezek 22:2)

“But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” (1 Cor 2:15)

“Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?” (1 Cor 6:2)

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?” (1 Cor 6:3)

How do I reply to this?

 

[Fidelis]

Perhaps you could more clearly define what you (and your friends) mean by “judging.” If you’re talking about different things, you’ll never be able to discuss it.

Broadly speaking, we all have to make prudential judgments about situations and, yes, about people on a daily basis. If your 16 year old daughter’s date arrives at the door, and he displays a rude, surly attitude, and he is dressed like a neo-nazi skinhead (presuming you don’t want your daughter dating someone of that ilk), you need to make a prudential judgment as to whether you want that date to proceed or not. You’d be stupid and/or irresponsible to not do so.

If you’re talking about judgmentalism (say, whether pronouncing someone’s guilt or innocence in some particular sin or crime, or even whether someone is damned to hell or not) then, no, we don’t have the right in the first case unless we are a duly appointed courtroom judge, and in the second case, never, unless we are God. This last is where Jesus’ “Judge not, lest ye be judged” instruction comes into play.

 

[Liberian]

NolePaul,

It sounds like the people you are debating are just flinging verses all around without bothering to see what they mean. You are talking about judging other people–telling whether they are walking properly with God and what their motives are. The verses that they are citing are …

NolePaul2005:

Have you read John 7:24, or 1 Cor 2:15.

In John 7:24 Jesus says not to judge by appearances but justly. There is nothing in here that gives us a license to judge others. In fact, since you have no knowledge of what is going on inside someone else’s head, if you judge that person you are by definition “judging by appearances.” I Cor 2:15 is quoted later in your post.

“The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.” (Psa 37:30)

Again, “judgment” here–being paired with wisdom–speaks more of discernment than with ascribing motives to people.

“With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.” (Psa 119:13)

Here the Psalmist says that he is simply quoting what God has said, rather than judging people himself.

“Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.” (Prov 31:9)

This is part of the advice for a king (and you will want to check the translation–my red Bible says “decree what is just”) and refers to establishing justice and the rule of law. It says nothing about judging people.

Jesus commended Simon, “Thou hast rightly judged.” (Luke 7:43)

Again, this is not about judging people; Jesus is telling Simon that he answered the question correctly.

“Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations.” (Ezek 22:2)

This is at best (for their position) a special case. Ezekiel is a prophet and God is giving him special orders. But even so, God is saying that Ezekiel will “judge” the bloody city by “show(ing) her all her abominations.” This is reminiscent of Jesus’ words in John 12:47-48, that He would not judge people, but that His words themselves would judge people. Ezekiel is to show people what they have done, and the abominations themselves will sit in judgment on the people.

“But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” (1 Cor 2:15)

And again we have judging (discerning) things, not people.

“Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?” (1 Cor 6:2)

This is going to be on the last day, by the saints. I would not presume to usurp their position or start early.

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?” (1 Cor 6:3)

Ditto.

How do I reply to this?

If your debaters are looking for truth, it should be very easy to answer them. But given the “buckshot all over the place” nature of their Scripture references, it looks like (note that I am NOT judging their motives–I am noting an appearance) they are simply trying to “throw the Book at you.” If this is the case, then they probably will not be interested in reasoned replies.

• Liberian

 

[trogiah]

One thing you can point to, in regards to most of the other quotes, is that Jesus is the Messiah, not Paul nor the psalmist nor any of the prophets. If there is any apparent conflict, I would stick with Jesus. He spends a lot of time explaining, clarifying, and even correcting other authors of scripture, even Moses, and I think we must all agree that Jesus has the last word.

Various quotes attributed to Jesus must be examined more closely if they appear difficult to reconcile. As posters have already done.

To add my own thought, I am absolutely certain that Jesus never requires us to hold another person in contempt. No matter how depraved or sinful. I believe we are called to consider situations and actions and make the best estimate we can of what the right thing to do (judge) and then do it.

peace

Jim

 

[Rob_in_Oregon]

I heard a good homily by a faithful Dominican Friar on this subject. Summarized, he stated that “judge not, lest ye be judged,” means that we must never assume that another person is damned to Hell, and we must never wish Hell for anyone. We must wish for the conversion and salvation of sinners. At the same time, the, “judge not” admonition does NOT include accepting another person’s gravely sinful behavior. Encouraging gravely sinful behavior in the name of kindness is a false compassion, for it endangers the soul. Glory to God in the highest! - Rob

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

where did my post go?

 

[T.A.Stobie_SFO]

It comes down to context.

When we are responsible for judging others, we should do our best in a Christian manner. For example, judging whether or not we should associate a given person is a valid judgement of others.

When we are not responsible we should avoid it as generally we do not know the motives and usually not the whole pictures of facts.

Likewise we must speak out against sin and judge actions not people in these cases.

 

[SemperJase]

NolePaul2005:

Im having another debate with these folks…this time on the topic of judging others. I know in the Bible, Christ says, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” These folks come back with this

Are you claiming we should not judge?

The verse you quote is only part of the Jesus warning. Remember - context, context, context:
Matt 7:1-2
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

I see a warning against and punishment for hypocrisy. Do not condemn a gossipper while you are guilty of gossipping. Do not condemn you neighbor for stealing when you are also stealing.

So we can judge. In fact we must do so. But we must also examine ourselves. Just remember, the punishment we expect to be meted out to others will be given to us for the same thing.

 

[richbansha]

The example in John 8:11 is enough for me. If one takes that posture every time, you can’t be in the wrong.