Judges 19-21 Israel's Civil War Triggering Incident

[maximus]

I was reading the book of Judges and came across these passages. For discussion I found shocking the incident where an old man brings two travelers; one with his concubine to his hold so they can stay the night and be on their way the following day. Some men of Gabaa of Benjamin come to the old mans house and demand to have the travelers so they can sodomize them. The old man offers instead a virgin daughter and the traveler’s concubine.

I thought why would the old man go so far in protecting an unknown guess from shame that he would give his flesh and blood daughter to a band of perverted men to rape and injure or kill her. It similar to the situation in Genesis 19 where the perverts demand the two Angels and Lot offers his daughter to appease the sick mob.

Why would these men be willing to appease some sickos by giving their daughters.

God Bless,

 

[maximus]

I was hoping I would have gotten some discussions, explanations or theories why someone would put the virtue of a unknown fellow Israelite before that of his own daughter. Oh well, this thread really bombed.

 

[NotWorthy]

You know, Lot acted in the same way when confronted with the people from Sodom who wanted to have sex with his guests.

8 *I have two daughters who have never had sexual relations with men. Let me bring them out to you,* and you may do to them as you please. But do not do anything to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” *

And I think the last line is the answer to your question… for they have come under the shelter of my roof. This obviously means a great deal to the Israelite to provide for the safety of anyone who is allowed into their home at all costs.

But taking this from a different and more allegorical angle, the man was willing to give up his own innocent flesh and blood to save the lives of those who are not innocent (the concubine). Does that, in a way, pre-figure God giving up His only Son, who is also innocent, to save the lives of us (who are not so innocent)?

 

[NotWorthy]

I was hoping I would have gotten some discussions, explanations or theories why someone would put the virtue of a unknown fellow Israelite before that of his own daughter. Oh well, this thread really bombed.

BTW, don’t expect too many comments from midnight to 8:30am on Sunday. Give people time, brother.

Another “BTW”, that’s not exactly an inspiring section of the Old Testament, is it? Not for the faint of heart. I often find myself envisioning the scenes that I read in the Bible… but when I get to this section, I mentally decide to skip this scene.

 

[maximus]

Another “BTW”, that’s not exactly an inspiring section of the Old Testament, is it? Not for the faint of heart. I often find myself envisioning the scenes that I read in the Bible… but when I get to this section, I mentally decide to skip this scene.

You are not kidding, the books of Judges and Joshua is not for the faint of heart. Ruth was a nice change of pace before going into Samuel. One of the things I got was that the act of sodomy was such a grave sin that the host would rather have a daughter raved by the depraved mob; besides the protection of a guest in one’s. Also, I guess the host might have reasoned that this act would trigger severe reprisals against the tribe of Benjamin.

I can’t help placing myself in these scenes and trying to understand the ruggedness of those times. You needed plenty of weapons and strong sons.

God Bless,

 

[NotWorthy]

You are not kidding, the books of Judges and Joshua is not for the faint of heart. Ruth was a nice change of pace before going into Samuel. One of the things I got was that the act of sodomy was such a grave sin that the host would rather have a daughter raved by the depraved mob; besides the protection of a guest in one’s. Also, I guess the host might have reasoned that this act would trigger severe reprisals against the tribe of Benjamin.

I can’t help placing myself in these scenes and trying to understand the ruggedness of those times. You needed plenty of weapons and strong sons.

God Bless,

Yes, you are right. Judges seems to show how far Israel sank after the Exodus and all. If I recall correctly, the Passover wasn’t celebrated during this time. It would be, in some senses, a parallel to the wild west of the 1800’s.

 

[Todd_Easton]

I don’t recall the actions of the hosts in offering up the women to be raped being described as prudent, good or praiseworthy. Scripture may simply have reported what happened without intending to sanction their actions.

Although the rules of Middle Eastern hospitality are probably the main reason for the hosts actions, perhaps another reason why the hosts may have offered up the women to the crowds instead of their male guests was because forced heterosexual sex, though immoral, is at least in accord with Nature, whereas homosexual sex, forced or unforced, is an abomination, quite contrary to Nature. In other words, the hosts may have viewed offering up the women to the crowds as the lesser of two evils.

 

[TimothyH]

To understand the reasons why the Jews protected the men at the expense of their daughters, one has to understand Jewish belief about how and why the Messiah would come.

The “Holiness Code” in Leviticus 17-22 was a list of commands which the Jews thought made them holy in God’s eyes. Jewish belief was that adherance to the law of Moses, primarily laid out in the holiness code in Leviticus, was one of the things that would directly contribute to the coming of the Messiah. If Israelites were holy according to the Mosaic law, the messiah would come. If Israel was not holy according to the Mosaic law, the messiah was prevented from coming. Through the Davidic kingdom and into the time of Jesus, belief that personal holiness would directly contribute to the coming of the messiah, and that violations of the holiness code were actually preventing the comming of the Messiah, was so strong that the Book of Leviticus was used to teach children how to read and write. Children would go off to the yeshiva schools at a very early age and would learn their ABC’s and how to read and write from Leviticus. This served the dual purpose of literacy and teaching children how to be holy according to God’s law.

The holiness code of the Mosaic law and its implications for the coming of the Messiah was so strong that it led later to the rise of the strictest Jewish sect, the Pharisees, of which Saul (Paul) was one. A devout Jew would go to astonishing lengths not to violate the holiness code and thereby contribute to the prevention of the coming of the Messiah.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

Sex between men was specifically prohibited in the holiness code. A devout Jew looking for the coming of the Messiah simply would not violate this law and would probably do anything to prevent others from violating it. To my knowledge, giving of a daughter was not prohibited.

So the actions of those who protected the men from homosexual rape at the expense of their very daughters, while abhorrent to our modern eyes, was actually the action of a devout Jew who loved God. His zeal for the coming of the Messiah would have caused him to sacrifice his very daughter for the sake of God’s kingdom. And this was Paul’s reason for persecuting the early Church as well. Paul viewed the Christians who violated the mosaic law as actually preventing the coming of the Messiah and so his persecution of the Church was due to his zeal for God and desire for the Messiah. Of course he didn’t realize that the Messiah had already come. When viewed in light of jewish belief about the holiness code and its implications of the coming of the Messiah, one has to actually admire Paul’s zeal, if not his judgement.

The Jews who gave their daughters over to rape and death for love of God and the coming of the Messiah would have been viewed as righteous. And when viewed through the lense of ancient Judaism, we see how things have changed very little. The Catholic martyrs give testimonly to how we are called to do the same as those devout Jews. We are called to give our very lives rather than disavow God’s authority and sovereignty. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

-Tim-

 

[maximus]

Thank you TimothyH and all the other responders to this thread, it is crazy how the tribe of Benjamin apostatized or at least how the allowed such apostasy in their mist. The other tribes took an oath not to give daughters to members of the tribe of Benjamin since they had condoned such wickedness. We can learn from this episode and not allow grave sins to be viewed with normalcy in our Church as some progressives would wish we would. It makes you think about the consequences that the Church has experienced due to homosexual misconduct from some members and how gravely damaging this has been.

God Bless

 

[NotWorthy]

Thank you TimothyH and all the other responders to this thread, it is crazy how the tribe of Benjamin apostatized or at least how the allowed such apostasy in their mist. The other tribes took an oath not to give daughters to members of the tribe of Benjamin since they had condoned such wickedness. We can learn from this episode and not allow grave sins to be viewed with normalcy in our Church as some progressives would wish we would. It makes you think about the consequences that the Church has experienced due to homosexual misconduct from some members and how gravely damaging this has been.

God Bless

Although I wouldn’t limit the grave danger to just “homosexuality”, otherwise you are so right!

Also, remember that God took this small tribe of Benjamin and made the first King of Israel come from this tribe. Of course, Saul, managed to mess that up as well.

 

[maximus]

I just completed up to 1 Samuel 10. I was just thinking, of all the tribes why would God choose someone of the tribe of Benjamin as king. It was curious that the last line in the book of Judges is ‘In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his eyes’. Yet Samuel chastises the decision of the people to ask for a king. Yet, I can’t blame the people for wanting a form of centralized government for the tribes; I guess a King was what all they could come up with.

What is really something is that Samuel fails to reign in his sons just like Eli before him. Specially since seeing firsthand all that befell the house of Eli.

I am enjoying this trip through the Old Testament.

God Bless,

 

[NotWorthy]

I just completed up to 1 Samuel 10. I was just thinking, of all the tribes why would God choose someone of the tribe of Benjamin as king. It was curious that the last line in the book of Judges is ‘In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his eyes’. Yet Samuel chastises the decision of the people to ask for a king. Yet, I can’t blame the people for wanting a form of centralized government for the tribes; I guess a King was what all they could come up with.

What is really something is that Samuel fails to reign in his sons just like Eli before him. Specially since seeing firsthand all that befell the house of Eli.

I am enjoying this trip through the Old Testament.

God Bless,

The Israelites are passing judgment on God in desiring a king. They want to be more like the other nations who follow a human king rather than having God as their leader.

 

[maximus]

Well, I guess this was the first separation of Church and state. I have been acquainted with the explanation of that desire for a King was a worldly one, to be like other nations. However, after learning more about our war for independence I can sympathize with the Israelite wanting the benefits of centralizing the government of their tribes.

What I gained from these passages is that there is no doing your own thing. You have to follow God’s commandments in an exact fashion, King Saul wanted to follow God according to his own terms and that got him in trouble; the smorgasbord approach does work with God. So many lessons to learn.

God Bless,

 

[TimothyH]

Well, I guess this was the first separation of Church and state. I have been acquainted with the explanation of that desire for a King was a worldly one, to be like other nations. However, after learning more about our war for independence I can sympathize with the Israelite wanting the benefits of centralizing the government of their tribes.

What I gained from these passages is that there is no doing your own thing. You have to follow God’s commandments in an exact fashion, King Saul wanted to follow God according to his own terms and that got him in trouble; the smorgasbord approach does work with God. So many lessons to learn.

God Bless,

I think you are spot on here. The Old Testament history of how the priestly, judicial and military authority was centralized in Israel is interesting.

Prior to the Exodus and the golden calf incident, the head of each houshold was his own civil authority in the form of judge, was his own military ruler, and the head of each houshold was also his own familie’s priest. Abraham goes on his own military expedition in Genesis. Many of the patriarchs prior to exodus including Abraham build altars and sacrifice to God themselves. They make alliances and covenant oaths with no other authority than the fact that they are the head of their own houshold.

Priestly authority was revolked for the head of the houshold at Mt. Sinai due to the worship of the golden calf. Only the Levites, led by Phinneas, did not worship the calf and in thier zeal for killing those who did worship the calf, the so consecrated themselves to God. So the Levites alone became priests.

Later, as Israel refused to trust God, they resorted to Judges to mete out justice instead of relying on their own morality and faith in God to do the right thing with regard to their neighbor. Individual heads of the houshold so lost the civil authority.

The same thing happened with military authority when Israel demanded a king.

I find this stuff fascinating.

-Tim-

 

[chosen_people]

What we have here is a series of incidents where the person acted in contravention of Torah, and committed a forbidden act, justifying those actions in that they came to prevent other forbidden acts against the Torah. So in the incident concerning the concubine, the lawless mob wanted to sodomize the guest. Knowing that the mob would overpower them, the host tried to protect his guest by making the revolting offer of giving them his daughter and concubine. The rationalization here is that since the concubine was not legally married there was no death penalty in her case. They thus thought it would be preferable to turn her over rather than let the the mob sodomize the man which is a capital sin (see Ramban)- However they were wrong, for it is forbidden to turn over one person to save the life of another. In this case, the rabble satisfied their lust with the concubine and she died from the abuse.

The story continues with the man cutting up the body of the concubine in order to rouse the entire population to act against the perpetrators of the atrocity and to ensure that such an episode would never happen again. However, here again the person acted against the law of the Torah which forbids the desecration of the body.

The third case follows in which the nation is so appalled at the unprecedented atrocity they wish to act extralegally in an emergency situation. The tribe of Benjamin refused to cooperate because though the crime was heinous it was not a capital offense, responsibility to take action lay exclusively in the hand s of the high court of the tribe of Benjamin etc - all parties acted wrongly and God allows them to suffer heavy casualties as a result.

 

[maximus]

Thank you for all your responses you have enhanced my understanding. I am up to 1 Samuel 18.

God bless,

 

[maximus]

Shalom Chosen People I was blessed enough to have visited your country in 1999 & 2000. I worked for an Israeli telecom company which had offices in the US. I got to stay in Jaffa at the David Intercontinental & Dan Panorama both times during the first week of July; it was awesome! I got to visit the many places but not as much as my wife who did a new day trip every day while I worked.

God Bless,