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qui_est_ce
Guest
Can someone explain the meaning of this passage?
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Thank you!!
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Thank you!!
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T
TheLittleLady
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From
https://www.ecatholic2000.com/haydock/untitled-237.shtml#navPoint_238
Ver. 6. Mello. We know of no such city in the vicinity of Sichem. Heb. “all the house of Millo:” which some take to be the town-house of Sichem, full of the chief citizens, as Mello signifies “filled up;” (Vatable) or it might designate some part of the city which had been levelled, like the deep valley at Jerusalem, (3 K. ix. 15. H.) and where some powerful family, probably the father of Abimelech’s mother, might dwell. C. — This family would interest itself the most in the advancement of the tyrant, v. 3. H. — Oak. Heb. “the plain, or oak of the statue,” (alluding to the monument which was left here by Josue, v. 37. Josue xxiv. 26) or Sept. “of the station,” as those of Sichem might assemble here to deliberate on public affairs, (C.) in memory of the solemn covenant between God and the people.
Ver. 7. Stood on. As Abimelech was a figure of Antichrist, who will reign for a time, so Joatham denotes the pastors of the church, who shall stand up for the truth. W. — Garizim. At the foot of this mountain Sichem was built. Joatham addressed the people of the city, probably during the absence of Abimelech, (C.) when, Josephus (v. 9.) says, a great festival was celebrated.
- [9:9] Whereby gods and human beings are honored: olive oil had a variety of cultic uses (e.g., Lv 2:1, 6, 15; 24:2), and it was also used in the consecration of priests and kings for office (e.g., Ex 30:25, 30; 1 Sm 10:1; 16:13).
- [9:13] Cheers gods: wine was part of a number of types of offerings in the Israelite cult (cf. Ex 29:40; Lv 23:13; Nm 15:7, 10), and it was also used widely in the worship of foreign gods (cf. Dt 32:37–38; Is 65:11).
https://www.ecatholic2000.com/haydock/untitled-237.shtml#navPoint_238
Ver. 6. Mello. We know of no such city in the vicinity of Sichem. Heb. “all the house of Millo:” which some take to be the town-house of Sichem, full of the chief citizens, as Mello signifies “filled up;” (Vatable) or it might designate some part of the city which had been levelled, like the deep valley at Jerusalem, (3 K. ix. 15. H.) and where some powerful family, probably the father of Abimelech’s mother, might dwell. C. — This family would interest itself the most in the advancement of the tyrant, v. 3. H. — Oak. Heb. “the plain, or oak of the statue,” (alluding to the monument which was left here by Josue, v. 37. Josue xxiv. 26) or Sept. “of the station,” as those of Sichem might assemble here to deliberate on public affairs, (C.) in memory of the solemn covenant between God and the people.
Ver. 7. Stood on. As Abimelech was a figure of Antichrist, who will reign for a time, so Joatham denotes the pastors of the church, who shall stand up for the truth. W. — Garizim. At the foot of this mountain Sichem was built. Joatham addressed the people of the city, probably during the absence of Abimelech, (C.) when, Josephus (v. 9.) says, a great festival was celebrated.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Ver. 8. Us. By this parable, Joatham expostulates with the men of Sichem, who had so basely requited the labours of Gedeon, and had given the preference to the son of a servant, who was of the most savage temper. H. — In a spiritual sense, which the Fathers chiefly regard, heretics and schismatics act in this manner, and choose rather to be governed by those who will allow them to follow their passions, than by such governors as God has appointed, though the latter be endued with the grace of the Holy Ghost, and with all virtues, signified by the olive and other fruit trees. They prefer the bramble, or the worst dispositions, like Nemrod, Mahomet, Antichrist, &c. who, after persecuting the virtuous, and Catholics for a time, 2 Thess. ii.) will, in the end, prove their ruin, though they themselves be involved in the common destruction. “Fire shall rise (says V. Bede, q. 6.) against this bramble, Antichrist, and shall devour him, and all his together.” W. — The use of parables has been very general. M. — Agrippa brought the Roman plebeians, who had retired to the sacred mount, to a sense of their duty, and to a love of mutual harmony with the nobles, by observing that the members once refused to supply the wants of the belly, because it did not labour like the rest. Livy ii. — In the application of these parables, Maimonides justly remarks, that we must consider their general scope, and not pretend to explain every circumstance; (More. Neboc.) a remark which Origen had already made. Many things are only added for the sake of ornament. H. — Thus we need not imagine that the people of Sichem offered the sovereign authority to many, who refused to accept of it, and at last only prevailed upon Abimelech. Gedeon had, indeed, rejected a similar offer, (C. viii. 22.) and his other sons not endeavouring to retain the authority of their father, the Sichemites acceded to the petition of Abimelech, to anoint him king. This expression does not always imply a material unction, though such was used among the Jews. It signifies the granting of all the power of a king; in which sense it is applied to foreign princes, (Isa. lxv. 1.) and to Jesus Christ, (Dan. ix. 24.) who received the reality of that sovereign dominion, of which this unction was only a figure. C.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
The rest of the passage is at the Haydock link, too much to copy and paste
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Thanks. I did read Haydock’s commentary. I don’t understand the allegory of the trees asking other trees to be their king.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Poetic imagery.
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Bruce_Killian
Guest
You need to know the context of Judges and this chapter.
Abimelech was the son of Gideon the previous judge by a prostitute. Gideon refused to be a king. Abimelech means my father is king. Abimelech killed all but one of his seventy brothers by the people of Shechem. Shechem make Abimelech king. In Hebrew the vine and buckthorn are trees. Abimelech is saying you made the least of the son of Gideon your king. The thorns link this parable back to Eden and forward to Jesus’ crown of thorns. Because of Abimelech the entire city of Shechem gets destroyed.
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Sundiver
Guest
There are many legends and myths about talking to trees and giving reverence to certain types of trees. The bible mentions the Tree of life and the tree of knowledge. The Judges passage may have borrowed from the myths and legends.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
I guess that’s the best answer.
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Gorgias
Guest
Not Abimelech – he was fat and happy as a brother-killing king! Rather, it was Jotham – the only remaining sibling, whom Abimelech failed to murder – who was telling the people that their ‘king’ (Abimelech) was a worthless piece of thorn who would lead them all into the flames.
And he was right.
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BartholomewB
Guest
I can’t give you a detailed answer but it has to do with a specific moment in history, when the Israelites, now settled in Canaan, were governed by local chieftains, the so-called “judges,” unlike the other nations living in Canaan, who had kings. Abimelech was a Canaanite king and the Israelites lived as subjects of his kingdom, along with their Canaanite neighbors. The Israelites began to wonder whether it would be a good idea to pick a king for themselves from among their own people. This they eventually did, of course, when Samuel reluctantly gave way to their pressure and picked Saul. The reason why Samuel had to get involved was that he was a priest, and any king of Israel would have to be chosen by God, not simply elected by the people.
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Bruce_Killian
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You are correct, I knew that but miss typed. (And I made several other typos.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
I know the story and why. I just don’t understand the allegory of the trees. Maybe I’m being to literal.
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Genesis315
Guest
The literal and direct intepretation comes in the succeeding verses, Judges 9:16-21. My opinion on the deeper meaning is what Haydock says regarding heretics and schismatics.
St. Methedius of Olympus (d. 311), however, had a bit of a unique–even opposite–take. See chapters 2 to 5 here:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/062310.htm
St. Methedius of Olympus (d. 311), however, had a bit of a unique–even opposite–take. See chapters 2 to 5 here:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/062310.htm
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Gorgias
Guest
There are trees that give good gifts. They have all sorts of good things: olives for oil, figs for food, grapes for wine.
There are trees that don’t have good gifts. Instead, they just have thorns.
Jotham is saying that Abimelech is one of these latter trees, and not the former.
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BartholomewB
Guest
Me too. I think it goes something like this, but don’t take my word for it. The “noble” trees – the olive, fig, and vine – turned down the offer. They weren’t interested in the kingship, so by default the job fell to a humble low-status tree, the thorn bush, corresponding to the low-born Abimelech. That’s basically what @Gorgias is saying in his post, I think.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
There are trees that give good gifts. They have all sorts of good things: olives for oil, figs for food, grapes for wine.
There are trees that don’t have good gifts. Instead, they just have thorns.
Jotham is saying that Abimelech is one of these latter trees, and not the former.
That makes sense!! Thank you!
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De_Maria
Guest
It’s a prophecy of that which would come true. Read the rest of the Chapter. Abimelech kills the people who honored him (i.e fire from Abimelech) and he is killed by a woman who throws a pot at him. Thus, God punishes him for killing his many brothers.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Thanks to everybody!
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NJada
Guest
I’m a bit late and looks like you already got good answers, but I found some notes of mine on this.
It is a parable.
Menochius notes that “the three different fruit-trees, which rejected the offer of promotion, represented all the virtuous Israelites, who knew that they could not lawfully assume the regal or judicial authority, without the divine call. Ezechiel (17:24) attributes knowledge to trees by the same figure of speech, as Joatham does here.”
Abimelech is an example of the empty promises of satan (Notice at the end the woman crushes his head with a millstone, while he stood at the entrance [the foot?] of the tower: Gen 3:15). The trees that bear fruit are humble and content with their own jobs, while the useless one desires honors; and although useless, makes a deal with the evil one for power (9:4-5). Since the people would not accept that God had not given them a king, and the virtuous declined to be king, they accepted whoever wanted to be king: as in the parable. Those who seek such honors and those who serve them destroy one another (9:20). St. Bede: “Fire shall rise against this bramble, Antichrist, and shall devour him, and all his together.” Lots of comparisons with Cain too.
Abimelech as a useless bramble, devours with fire those who made him king and the same strange god out of whose temple he was sponsored (9:4,15,45-49). Compare Leviticus 10:1-2. (And contrast those two with Lev 9:24 and 1 Kgs 18:37-40.) So the Israelites learned again what happens when they try to usurp God’s sovereignty.
It is a parable.
Menochius notes that “the three different fruit-trees, which rejected the offer of promotion, represented all the virtuous Israelites, who knew that they could not lawfully assume the regal or judicial authority, without the divine call. Ezechiel (17:24) attributes knowledge to trees by the same figure of speech, as Joatham does here.”
Abimelech is an example of the empty promises of satan (Notice at the end the woman crushes his head with a millstone, while he stood at the entrance [the foot?] of the tower: Gen 3:15). The trees that bear fruit are humble and content with their own jobs, while the useless one desires honors; and although useless, makes a deal with the evil one for power (9:4-5). Since the people would not accept that God had not given them a king, and the virtuous declined to be king, they accepted whoever wanted to be king: as in the parable. Those who seek such honors and those who serve them destroy one another (9:20). St. Bede: “Fire shall rise against this bramble, Antichrist, and shall devour him, and all his together.” Lots of comparisons with Cain too.
Abimelech as a useless bramble, devours with fire those who made him king and the same strange god out of whose temple he was sponsored (9:4,15,45-49). Compare Leviticus 10:1-2. (And contrast those two with Lev 9:24 and 1 Kgs 18:37-40.) So the Israelites learned again what happens when they try to usurp God’s sovereignty.
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