Judging Modern Muslim Nations

[hosemonkey]

Rome is the capital of Itally, a secular western democracy, I’m asking about Vatican City

Is there a Catholic Church in Mecca? You stink of islam, run up your true flag.

 

[R_not]

you know what else, the Jews were always good with money, much better than the black, who were never good at math(still arn’t)O.O

Oh wait, Perhapse biggotry and rediculious generalizations are rediculious

Middle Age Catholics were civilised? 30 years war?

right

Well, 30 years of war compared to 1400 years of war by muslims, and still counting, do you want to try again?

 

[MugenOne]

If there’s private land in Vatican City, I’m pretty sure someone gonna buy it and build a mosque there.

 

[R_not]

If there’s private land in Vatican City, I’m pretty sure someone gonna buy it and build a mosque there.

I was looking into this further and I was wrong - I thought the Pope already acquiesced to the muslim’s petition to use an existing building as their mosque. As of 2004 (I can’t find anything any more recent that contradicts this) the request for the mosque was rejected.

Thank God! Look at what the Israelis go through now in Jerusalem! Now the muslims want all of Jerusalem just because their mosque resides there (well, muslims want all of Israel too). But they got the Gaza and now they want Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. And I do believe we are all learning that muslim demands do not stop once they get one thing - they just start up their violence again and start demanding another thing (land).

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=29267

This is why muslims do not have peace, or honor peace treaties, with non-muslim nations - mohammed told them to not make a treaty to last longer than 10 years, and that treaty can be broken at any time by a muslim before the 10 years. it is called hudna.

We should never voluntarily give up our churches to muslims. Look what they do to ours in their lands and lands that they have started their violence in - they destroy them, totally take them over as their mosques by force and allow no building of new churches or repairs of old churches if they have taken over the land.

 

[MugenOne]

You don’t have to look farther. Two years ago, some Dutch bishop let the Muslims stayed at some church and within weeks, they turned that sucker into a mosque. They had no respect for others and took advantage of the bishop’s generosity.

You have to understand the mind set of the Arabs. They will ask you for something until you give it to them. Their way of asking can be very annoying. Sometimes, people give in in order to get the monkey off their back. Unknowingly, that monkey gonna come back and bite you.

I was looking into this further and I was wrong - I thought the Pope already acquiesced to the muslim’s petition to use an existing building as their mosque. As of 2004 (I can’t find anything any more recent that contradicts this) the request for the mosque was rejected.

Thank God! Look at what the Israelis go through now in Jerusalem! Now the muslims want all of Jerusalem just because their mosque resides there (well, muslims want all of Israel too). But they got the Gaza and now they want Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. And I do believe we are all learning that muslim demands do not stop once they get one thing - they just start up their violence again and start demanding another thing (land).

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=29267

This is why muslims do not have peace, or honor peace treaties, with non-muslim nations - mohammed told them to not make a treaty to last longer than 10 years, and that treaty can be broken at any time by a muslim before the 10 years. it is called hudna.

We should never voluntarily give up our churches to muslims. Look what they do to ours in their lands and lands that they have started their violence in - they destroy them, totally take them over as their mosques by force and allow no building of new churches or repairs of old churches if they have taken over the land.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

So, now you are unable to click on a website? Go do the searches for yourself.

I did, I guess I’m confused, I asked how many Mosque’s are in Vatican City, you respond by giving me to a Mosque in Rome and claiming it was given to the Muslims by Catholics, a claim I have seen no evidence for

As for the rest - you think I am off? Not so fast. Take a good look at Europe - the violence that is ensuing from muslims and their immigration and birth rates soaring. And they sit like pigs gobbling up the welfare checks while breeding like pigs.

Well, besides from comparing Muslims to pigs you provided absolutly no evidence for your conspiricy theories, simply makeing broad statements about entire regions and peoples with absolutly no distinctions.

High Birth rates are common in many pull instances of immigration, such as Hispanics in the US now, as for violence, you need to point

a)-To specfic instances

b)-To prove that this violence resulted from religious motives.

On page #2 post #18 read my post of the muslim tactics in our land. Take note of a book that I suggested to read. Some more books are ‘Eurasia’, ‘While Europe Slept’, and ‘Menace in Europe’.

I think that the one who is in lala land is you. In fact, we call it ‘the head up thy butt’ syndrome.

ah, sticking to logic and citing facts and asking for evidence for claims is lala land.

“What Accounts For The Almost Psychotic Aversion To Knowledge About Islam?”

sheikyermami.com/2007/10/30/%e2%80%9cwhat-accounts-for-the-almost-psychotic-aversion-to-knowledge-about-islam%e2%80%9d/

How do I have almost psychotic aversion to knoledge about Islam?

Now, what could be your problem is that I just sniffed out another muslim on the Catholic website.

Right, why?

Really, I want a specific reasone for why I would be a Muslim

Gee, I wonder why there are so many muslims on a Catholic website?

Because there after you

From my experiences is that they practice their taqiyya (deception about islam and in some cases their denial of being muslims so as to not be pinned down any further)

You know there is not a single, uniform understanding of taqiyya in Islam? Sunni and Shia have different understandings, lumping entire groups of people into one non-distinct homogenous mass is

a)unscientific

b)Biggoted

c)likely to lead to confusion and ineffective ideas of how to deal with problems surrounding the people contained in these vast groups

in order to try to convince us that islam is so ‘peaceful’ and to continually deny the facts of what islam is all about.

It’s not a religion of peace, it’s, supposedly, a religion of utter submission to God, or so I understand

muslims are so concerned about their image

Really? All of them? Did they decide that at their last meeting where they discussed policy and tatics for takeing over the world?

• and do nothing about the masses of ‘moderates’ that do violence against non-muslims just because they are non-muslims.

right

here is the violence that is islam in our times. Islamic terror attacks:
thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Is there a Catholic Church in Mecca? You stink of islam, run up your true flag.

No, I don’t think there is.

My religious beleifs are non of your buisness, this is a debate based on fact, I have never tried to move to anthing beyond a scientific, rational analysis of the subject matter(Modern Muslim nations) the fact that so many people here keep going off topic speaks volumes

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Well, 30 years of war compared to 1400 years of war by muslims, and still counting, do you want to try again?

Wow, a 1400 year war?

Funny, I made almost a perfect score in AP European History last year, I was in Europe this summer, and keep up to date in news and information, and golly gee I never read or saw anything about a 1400 year war.

Wow, thank goodness, Scholars, Europeans, and politicians all missed this ancient war, thank God you, on the internet managed to discover it.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Currently, Europe is again under islamic attack. There is a difference though and it is the same sort of attack that we are under.

their tactics have changed. It starts with immigration, uncontrolled birth rates (and our immigration laws, and Europes, speed it up since we allow them to bring in hundreds of their relatives - and in many cases their extra brides), and then the demands start, the violence ensues and if the ‘eye’ turns on them - they wail they are the victims but they are not - they are the aggressors.

Europe has allowed their violence against their citizens go unchallenged. The muslims live in ghettos - in groups - and the police/politicians are afraid of them. And right now, there has been more than 2 weeks of riots - and the media doesn’t even state it accurately. our own media doesn’t even report it. But, more importantly they do not say who the rioters are - they call them Asians, or other things, ‘disaffected youth’, etc. Our own media does the same thing. All because muslim nations bully the media (basically other muslim nations arrogantly controlling OUR societies by their threats of violence and economic daliances)

Europe has also been in an agreement with the muslims in the Middle East. Basically, they signed an agreement to take the side of the Arabs over the Israelis and for that the Arabs will cut them favors in business dealings. But, the Europeans are the losers - they have allowed the massive amounts of immigrants of which the majority are on welfare move in.

And what they bring is sharia law, polygamy, ‘honor killings’, clitorectomies, etc. With polygamy in Western countries proving to be devastating - their 4-6 kids per wife versus the 1-2, or zero, birth rate of the European. And the muslim male can divorce and remarry many times so it actually proves that they have more than 4 wives. And they sit and draw welfare to support their nasty sexual behaviors. (I find it disgusting that the women just sit home and breed)

and believe me - they bring it here too. It is also happening in Canada and the muslims have started their infiltration of s. Ameria too.

All this is on the web if you want to do the searches for yourself. jihadwatch.org is a very good site, also: frontpagemag.com and jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch

A good book to read is ‘A Never Ending War’ by Michael Cappi. It is eye opening.

So true!

I made a topic about Mohammedans and their refusal to assimilate, but I was called a “racist” for it and suspended from this site. In our pc western society, we cannot even critique the savage desert virus known as Islam without being censored.

Here are some “European” Mohammedans:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Mohammedans have been conditioned to indiscriminately slaughter men, women, and children for the sake of allah, even if it means killing themselves in the process. These people are not capable of assimilation.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Wow, a 1400 year war?

Funny, I made almost a perfect score in AP European History last year, I was in Europe this summer, and keep up to date in news and information, and golly gee I never read or saw anything about a 1400 year war.

Wow, thank goodness, Scholars, Europeans, and politicians all missed this ancient war, thank God you, on the internet managed to discover it.

I got a 5 on the AP Euro exam too. Big deal.

The Mohammedans did indeed wage a genocidal 1400 year war against Christianity. At first they massacred or forcibly converted Arab Christians, and then they moved onto African Christians. Eventually they got to Europe, and conquered Spain, Siciliy, and a number of other provinces and islands. They were constantly raiding France, Greece, and Italy. Whole European cities were burned, villages slaughtered, priests beheaded, etc. The Mohammedans behaved worse than animals.

The Holy Crusades were the only thing that saved the Europeans from being massacred and converted to Islam. This heroic Catholic offensive against the Mohammedans effictively crippled the Mohammedan military machine for the time being.

Asking me to respect Islam is like asking me to respect Nazism.

 

[Kallukalam]

Rome is the capital of Itally, a secular western democracy, I’m asking about Vatican City

Ivan, we do not want Church in Mecca. What about Riyadh and Dammam? Would you ask the Saudi Government for allowing us to build Church in the above Cities.

Sunny

 

[ralphinal]

If we are throwing stuff out there, I had a 5 on European history, 4 on american history (and I did not take either as an AP prep course), 5 on cal, and 4 on chem. But, that was 17 years ago, and there has been much history since then. = I do have a minor in history, but my focus was modern war.

Anyway, this started with my assertion that there is no excuse for a modern nation to act like it is 1400. I do not deny errors that Christian nations have made, but I cannot excuse the behavior of those who claim to be peaceful and civilized or those who want to replace my government with another form.

Now, there is no mosque in Vatican City. Is there a demand for one? Let us start by saying that there is no available land, which is correct. If Muslims wanted a mosque in Rome, could they buy the land and build one? Now, can Christians build a church in Saudi Arabia? Iran? Syria? Pakistan? Can Christians teach their faith publicly in these nations?

Turkey was not a colony, this is true. That may be one reason that they have a different take on what it means to be a Muslim nation. Then again, the Turkish people have always been a strong willed folk with a strong sense of identity.

Iraq under Sadam actually allowed a good deal of freedom of religion. There was a Chaldean Catholic on his staff. There was almost no violence along religious lines. Why? Because it was oppressed from above. Once the threat was removed, you see it coming out. There are people that claim that within 20 years, there will be no non-Muslims in Iraq, other than foreign workers.

I have no proof that Ivan is a Muslim. I have a guess to his religion, but I will not share it here, as it is a guess. It does not matter to this conversation. I am Catholic, and there have been times on this forum that I have sided with Muslims, Protestants, Jews, and agnostics and athiests. Just because someone disagrees with your faith does not make them wrong at all times.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Muslims love to throw the whole “We’re 600 years younger” whenever anyone mentions women’s rights or anything like that.

That excuse is just plain stupid. Whenever you hear it, just blast them with the fact that Mormons are 1200 years younger than Muslims and yet mormons are light years ahead of them in terms of Moral & Ethical Standards.

 

[ralphinal]

That excuse is just plain stupid. Whenever you hear it, just blast them with the fact that Mormons are 1200 years younger than Muslims and yet mormons are light years ahead of them in terms of Moral & Ethical Standards.

Too true. Although Mormons are from a Western culture that was civilized.

 

[R_not]

Wow, a 1400 year war?

Funny, I made almost a perfect score in AP European History last year, I was in Europe this summer, and keep up to date in news and information, and golly gee I never read or saw anything about a 1400 year war.

Wow, thank goodness, Scholars, Europeans, and politicians all missed this ancient war, thank God you, on the internet managed to discover it.

You made a perfect score because you and your lefties are in agreement - twist and censor history and you will get an A+

Anyway, the violence started with mohammed himself. And below is a partial list of attacks since mohammed. The website has the more current years.

Islamic terror attacks
thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

military expeditions led by the ‘prophet’
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

Egypt, Palestine, Tripolitania 640-646
Iraq, Syria
Armenia 642
Cyprus, the Greek Islands and Anatolia 649-654
The Indian subcontinent 711-712
Cappadicua 715-720
Spain and France 790-860
Anatolia, Amorium 838
Armenia 847-861
Sicily and Italy 835-851, 884
Hindu Kingdom of Kabul 870
Thesselonika 904
Ghazni India 977-997
Thanesar India 1018-1019
Mesopotamia 1057
Campaigns in India from 1025 through 14th century

From 1057 through 1499 almost uninterrupted campaigns against lands in N. Africa, Spain, Greece, Italy

In parallel further campaigns throughout the Indian subcontinent until 1565

Armenia again in 1604

More campaigns in the 18th and 19th centuries in India

Slave trade flourishes from captives during the Sudan jihad late 19th century

Genocide of the Armenians 1894-1896

The difference today is that muslim countries are stagnat stys and the way they fight now is through terror and intimidation and also using their oil as ways to intimidate (price gauging, etc).

Since mohammeds time there has been so few years without war that I lump it all together. If you start paying attention to what they do worldwide - maybe you won’t be so arrogant to think that islam is so benign and ‘peaceful’.

Islamic terror attacks
thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

 

[R_not]

Well, besides from comparing Muslims to pigs you provided absolutly no evidence for your conspiricy theories, simply makeing broad statements about entire regions and peoples with absolutly no distinctions.

High Birth rates are common in many pull instances of immigration, such as Hispanics in the US now, as for violence, you need to point

a)-To specfic instances

b)-To prove that this violence resulted from religious motives.

I compared them to pigs due to their sitting around and doing nothing but birthing. You compare them to the Hispanics in the USA. Well, it sounds you are as bigoted as you claim I am. There are many illegals other than Hispanics. And the muslims are doing here what they do in Europe - bringing polygamy, sharia law, their demands and their violence. We just don’t cowardly ignore it and let them get away with it like the Europeans do.

ah, sticking to logic and citing facts and asking for evidence for claims is lala land.

Don’t read the books - then don’t tell me how superior your knowledge is to the facts. I also keep updated to what is up via jihadwatch.org and some other websites that are reputable. I am sure the fuzz up your butt makes you comfortable because for the life of me I don’t know why you are so arrogant and fly off at the mention that the muslims are indeed stating they want to establish sharia law in our lands.

Listen to them, not to me - or your own lack of capacity to understand that this is their agenda.
Muslim’s stated goal to take us over by 2050
<a href="http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018733.php"target=new>Islamic State of North America no later than 2050

How do I have almost psychotic aversion to knoledge about Islam?

Right, why?

Really, I want a specific reasone for why I would be a Muslim

Because there after you

For an A+ student you need to get a spell checker. Anyway, if you are not a muslim then it is even worse - you are chosing ignorance and chose to defend the indefensible and intolerant. They want you just as #1. dead, #2. converted, or #3. subjugated. This is a muslim’s only option for infidels once they establish sharia law in the land. This is their stated goals - not mine.

Maybe reading a book on war tactics - besides the koran - might wake you up. Sun Tsu’s ‘The Art of War’ is a good book. Then you might be able to understand the koran and hadiths as being a book of tactics against the infidels.

You know there is not a single, uniform understanding of taqiyya in Islam? Sunni and Shia have different understandings, lumping entire groups of people into one non-distinct homogenous mass is

a)unscientific

b)Biggoted

c)likely to lead to confusion and ineffective ideas of how to deal with problems surrounding the people contained in these vast groups

It’s not a religion of peace, it’s, supposedly, a religion of utter submission to God, or so I understand

Some explanations on taqiyya, or kithman, depending on what sect of islam.

jihadwatch.org/archives/017491.php
jihadwatch.org/archives/015816.php
jihadwatch.org/archives/015800.php

Really? All of them? Did they decide that at their last meeting where they discussed policy and tatics for takeing over the world?

‘No muslim should be killed for killing (a disbeliever).’ Hadith Sahih al-Bukhari, vol1, book3, no. 111

 

[IvanKaramozov]

QUOTE=RomanCrusader;3381425]I got a 5 on the AP Euro exam too. Big deal.

It wasen’t meant to impress you, it was to point to the odd absence of any record of this mystery war

The Mohammedans did indeed wage a genocidal 1400 year war against Christianity.

REAL!?

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=694128

There’s one of those Godless savages

At first they massacred or forcibly converted Arab Christians, and then they moved onto African Christians. Eventually they got to Europe, and conquered Spain, Siciliy, and a number of other provinces and islands. They were constantly raiding France, Greece, and Italy. Whole European cities were burned, villages slaughtered, priests beheaded, etc. The Mohammedans behaved worse than animals.

I’m tell you a super squirl secret

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=693984

Just because a two forces attack, and the attackers have the same religion, dosen’t actually mean they are in cahoots>.>

For example, simply because during the plague Christians rioted and attacked Jews beleiving them had poisoned the wells, and then centuries later German made of mainly Christians waged war on Europe and slaughtered Jews, Slaves, Homosexuals, etc dosen’t mean they were acting as a cohesive unit or wageing war aghinst Jews

The Holy Crusades were the only thing that saved the Europeans from being massacred and converted to Islam. This heroic Catholic offensive against the Mohammedans effictively crippled the Mohammedan military machine for the time being.

It’s just those darn liberal, gay hugging, Muslim loveing liberals who brainwash us to beleive otherwise:thumbsup:

Asking me to respect Islam is like asking me to respect Nazism.

No, no it’s not.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Ivan, we do not want Church in Mecca. What about Riyadh and Dammam? Would you ask the Saudi Government for allowing us to build Church in the above Cities.

Sunny

Of course

 

[IvanKaramozov]

If we are throwing stuff out there, I had a 5 on European history, 4 on american history (and I did not take either as an AP prep course), 5 on cal, and 4 on chem. But, that was 17 years ago, and there has been much history since then. = I do have a minor in history, but my focus was modern war.

It had nothing to do with my scores, I was pointing out how odd it was that no mention of this war could be found

Anyway, this started with my assertion that there is no excuse for a modern nation to act like it is 1400. I do not deny errors that Christian nations have made, but I cannot excuse the behavior of those who claim to be peaceful and civilized or those who want to replace my government with another form.

They are not living like it is 1400, they are living in more primitive conditions, the region was controlled by colonial powers, has had numerous proxy governments set up, etc yet you want to make it seem like people in the region want to be living in 50% poverty and no upward mobility.

Look at pools in the Region, desire for economic movement is HGE on goals, people want progress.

Now, there is no mosque in Vatican City. Is there a demand for one? Let us start by saying that there is no available land, which is correct. If Muslims wanted a mosque in Rome, could they buy the land and build one? Now, can Christians build a church in Saudi Arabia? Iran? Syria? Pakistan? Can Christians teach their faith publicly in these nations?

Syria has Churchs, I’m under the impression that Pakistan has a secular government backed by the military, Saudi Arabia is an atrocity, I can’t say for Iran, I would think not.

Turkey was not a colony, this is true. That may be one reason that they have a different take on what it means to be a Muslim nation. Then again, the Turkish people have always been a strong willed folk with a strong sense of identity.

That’s my point, you can’t point to one variable and say, “ah, that’s it” There are numerous factors, you can’t ignore colonialism and just point to Islam, Islam CAN be a retardant, as can about any religion.

Iraq under Sadam actually allowed a good deal of freedom of religion. There was a Chaldean Catholic on his staff. There was almost no violence along religious lines. Why? Because it was oppressed from above. Once the threat was removed, you see it coming out. There are people that claim that within 20 years, there will be no non-Muslims in Iraq, other than foreign workers.

Sectarian violence did not erupt immediatly, look at Yougoslavia, Tito did a lot, but even before him various ethnicities managed to work, and even intermarry amongst each other, there is nothing intrinsic to being Serbian, or Croatian, or Bosnian etc, that causes violence, however sectarian division can be exaserbated by events.

I have no proof that Ivan is a Muslim. I have a guess to his religion, but I will not share it here, as it is a guess. It does not matter to this conversation. I am Catholic, and there have been times on this forum that I have sided with Muslims, Protestants, Jews, and agnostics and athiests. Just because someone disagrees with your faith does not make them wrong at all times.

I have been accused of being Muslim(how, may I ask, in a liberal representative democracy, can one be accused of being a religion?), I see no point in arguing it, If I say I’m not I will be accused of being a liar to spead Islam or some other non-sense.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

You made a perfect score because you and your lefties are in agreement - twist and censor history and you will get an A+

Right, My teacher is a republican, former Marine and Gulf War vet, listened to talk radio during lunch break, and showed “Obsession” in class.

Anyway, the violence started with mohammed himself. And below is a partial list of attacks since mohammed. The website has the more current years.

Islamic terror attacks
thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

military expeditions led by the ‘prophet’
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

I know, my “liberal” teacher gave a talk on this.

Egypt, Palestine, Tripolitania 640-646
Iraq, Syria
Armenia 642
Cyprus, the Greek Islands and Anatolia 649-654
The Indian subcontinent 711-712
Cappadicua 715-720
Spain and France 790-860
Anatolia, Amorium 838
Armenia 847-861
Sicily and Italy 835-851, 884
Hindu Kingdom of Kabul 870
Thesselonika 904
Ghazni India 977-997
Thanesar India 1018-1019
Mesopotamia 1057
Campaigns in India from 1025 through 14th century

From 1057 through 1499 almost uninterrupted campaigns against lands in N. Africa, Spain, Greece, Italy

In parallel further campaigns throughout the Indian subcontinent until 1565

Armenia again in 1604

More campaigns in the 18th and 19th centuries in India

Slave trade flourishes from captives during the Sudan jihad late 19th century

Genocide of the Armenians 1894-1896

The difference today is that muslim countries are stagnat stys and the way they fight now is through terror and intimidation and also using their oil as ways to intimidate (price gauging, etc).

Since mohammeds time there has been so few years without war that I lump it all together. If you start paying attention to what they do worldwide - maybe you won’t be so arrogant to think that islam is so benign and ‘peaceful’.

Islamic terror attacks
thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

Right, so you lumped the militant actions of a former merchant and his band of ollowers with the military actions of the Ottoman Empire?

That’s so rediculious it’s astonishing.