Judging or not Judging

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lakotak

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Can some one explain to me what was meant by “Judge ye not, lest ye be judged”.

Now does that mean that if we see a person going down an unholy path, as say in a gay coworker who just got “married”, that we are not to judge this person’s path as putting their soul in danger if they do not repent? Or does it mean that I am seeing this and saying that this person is definitely going to hell is judging them on the state of their soul?

Paul said to admonish our brothers and sisters when they are doing wrong. In order to do this, I would think a person would have to judge the person’s path to know they are doing wrong.

Somewhat confused on this issue.
 
St. Seraphim of Sarov

It is not right to judge anyone, even if you have seen someone sinning and wallowing in the violations of God’s laws with your own eyes, as is said in the word of God: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Mt. 7:1). “Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand” (Rom. 14:4). It is much better always to bring to memory the words of the apostle: “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall” (1 Cor. 10:12).

One must not harbor anger or hatred towards a person that is hostile toward us. On the contrary, one must love him and do as much good as possible towards him, following the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ: “Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you” (Mt. 5:44). If then we will try to fulfill all this to the extent of our power, we can hope that God’s light will begin to shine in our hearts, lighting our path to the heavenly Jerusalem.

Why do we judge our neighbors? Because we are not trying to get to know ourselves. Someone busy trying to understand himself has no time to notice the shortcomings of others. Judge yourself — and you will stop judging others. Judge a poor deed, but do not judge the doer. It is necessary to consider yourself the most sinful of all, and to forgive your neighbor every poor deed. One must hate only the devil, who tempted him. It can happen that someone might appear to be doing something bad to us, but in reality, because of the doer’s good intentions, it is a good deed. Besides, the door of penitence is always open, and it is not known who will enter it sooner — you, “the judge,” or the one judged by you.

Peace
 
hazcompat said:
St. Seraphim of Sarov

It is not right to judge anyone, even if you have seen someone sinning and wallowing in the violations of God’s laws with your own eyes, as is said in the word of God: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Mt. 7:1). “Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand” (Rom. 14:4). It is much better always to bring to memory the words of the apostle: “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall” (1 Cor. 10:12).

One must not harbor anger or hatred towards a person that is hostile toward us. On the contrary, one must love him and do as much good as possible towards him, following the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ: “Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you” (Mt. 5:44). If then we will try to fulfill all this to the extent of our power, we can hope that God’s light will begin to shine in our hearts, lighting our path to the heavenly Jerusalem.

Why do we judge our neighbors? Because we are not trying to get to know ourselves. Someone busy trying to understand himself has no time to notice the shortcomings of others. Judge yourself — and you will stop judging others. Judge a poor deed, but do not judge the doer. It is necessary to consider yourself the most sinful of all, and to forgive your neighbor every poor deed. One must hate only the devil, who tempted him. It can happen that someone might appear to be doing something bad to us, but in reality, because of the doer’s good intentions, it is a good deed. Besides, the door of penitence is always open, and it is not known who will enter it sooner — you, “the judge,” or the one judged by you.

Peace
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Ok, so are you saying that the deed can be judged right or wrong, just not the person who does the deed?
 
In imitation of Christ you must become their advocate!

Words and Prayers of St. Isaac the Syrian

Let yourself be persecuted, but do not persecute others.
Be crucified, but do not crucify others.
Be slandered, but do not slander others.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep: such is the sign of purity.
Suffer with the sick.
Be afflicted with sinners.
Exult with those who repent.
Be the friend of all, but in your spirit remain alone.
Be a partaker of the sufferings of all, but keep your body distant from all.
Rebuke no one, revile no one, not even those who live very wickedly.
Spread your cloak over those who fall into sin, each and every one, and shield them.
And if you cannot take the fault on yourself and accept punishment in their place,
do not destroy their character.

Peace
 
CCC

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1861

Peace
 
*CCC#1861 [A]lthough we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
*We can judge behaviors and point out evils in the world. We can’t determine someone’s eternal fate.
 
MarcoPolo said:
*CCC#1861 [A]lthough we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
*We can judge behaviors and point out evils in the world. We can’t determine someone’s eternal fate.
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Yes, this is what I was, basically, asking, about making judgments on actions, not persons.
This is what I thought, but I just wanted to be sure I understood so as not to commit sin in this area.

Thank you all for your help on this issue.
 
lakotak said:
Can some one explain to me what was meant by “Judge ye not, lest ye be judged”.

Now does that mean that if we see a person going down an unholy path, as say in a gay coworker who just got “married”, that we are not to judge this person’s path as putting their soul in danger if they do not repent? Or does it mean that I am seeing this and saying that this person is definitely going to hell is judging them on the state of their soul?

Paul said to admonish our brothers and sisters when they are doing wrong. In order to do this, I would think a person would have to judge the person’s path to know they are doing wrong.

Somewhat confused on this issue.
Click to expand...
What you are talking about is fraternal correction, and I’ve heard more than once that the obligation to conduct this rarely exists unless perhaps you are talking about acting as a parent or spiritual adviser.

Do you really think that you’d be able to talk a coworker out of a marriage without endangering your own job?

You need to be really careful about assuming that someone is going to hell.
 
lakotak said:
Yes, this is what I was, basically, asking, about making judgments on actions, not persons.
This is what I thought, but I just wanted to be sure I understood so as not to commit sin in this area.

Thank you all for your help on this issue.
Click to expand...
If you need help discerning these kinds of obligations, it’s best to speak to your confessor.

Otherwise, this site has a pretty good feel for it.
 
SuperLuigi said:
What you are talking about is fraternal correction, and I’ve heard more than once that the obligation to conduct this rarely exists unless perhaps you are talking about acting as a parent or spiritual adviser.

Do you really think that you’d be able to talk a coworker out of a marriage without endangering your own job?

You need to be really careful about assuming that someone is going to hell.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe I said I assume anyone goes to hell. I came for information in order to avoid doing this. I am talking about behaviors, not the person, personally. If it is wrong to judge that a behavior of an individual is wrong and against a Commandment, then what was Paul talking about and how could he tell us to remind someone of some behavior that was leading them down the wrong path?

I guess to put it another way: is judging a behavior come under the same condemnation as judging a person.
 
lakotak

We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but we are commanded by Christ Himself to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.

The rule from Christ is:
“Judge not that you be not judged.” (Mt 7:1)

“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).

“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

St Paul adds:
“Test everything: retain what is good.” (1Thess 5:21).

“The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgement by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15).

“I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgement on the one who has committed this deed…” (1 Cor 5:3; read 1-13).

“I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.” (1 Cor 10:15).

“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1).

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but are commanded to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.
 
lakotak said:
I don’t believe I said I assume anyone goes to hell. I came for information in order to avoid doing this. I am talking about behaviors, not the person, personally. If it is wrong to judge that a behavior of an individual is wrong and against a Commandment, then what was Paul talking about and how could he tell us to remind someone of some behavior that was leading them down the wrong path?

I guess to put it another way: is judging a behavior come under the same condemnation as judging a person.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the confusion and if I misread you. 😦

The way I look at it is this: you can correct someone’s behaviour, stand up for you believe in and tell someone something is wrong.

That is not judging, that is communicating information. What the person does with it is up to them.

Of course, there’s a good chance you’ll get snapped at if you practice that charity and will be accused of judging. That’s the pre-programmed reaction. :rolleyes:

But judging to me is acting like God and suggesting a person is going to hell, or even heaven for that matter.

You can tell which one they’d object to. 😃

I’m not comfortable saying people are heaven either, because you have to be totally free of evil.

The thing is, we don’t know a person’s heart and God is not bound by the Sacraments.
 
Here is an example of the astuteness of Pope Francis and the error of condemning as “seeming judgmental.”

lifesitenews.com/
Responding to Cardinal Dolan: We were not “outmarketed” on gay marriage, we were “outevangelized”
by Dr. Gerard M. Nadal
Mon Dec 02, 2013
To say that those numbers are the result of marketing is to suggest that the Gospel has roots shallower than grass. And on that matter, Pope Francis has spoken loud and clear.

Many priests reacted with scorn to the challenge by Francis that they and their bishops get out of the rectory and go out among the people in a bold new way. Francis sees clearly that the Church is dwindling in influence because the people don’t know who they are. They have lost sight of their great dignity while so very many of our clergy refuse to engage the culture for fear of alienating people or seeming judgmental. That timidity is often defended as the cardinal virtue of Prudence. .

It isn’t.[My emphasis]
tinyurl.com/l8c8t9t
 
Different words are used in different texts of the New Testament and they actually mean different things though they are often translated as judge.

The one in the Gospel means to judge and condemn.

The one in St. Paul’s letter is better translated as “discerns”

It breaks down like this.

The one that Jesus tells us not to do is like a judge actually does.
He does three things…


  1. *]He investigates/ looks at the facts

    *]He decides if a crime/sin has been committed
    *]He passes sentence/condemns

    The one that we are told to do by St. Paul only allows two of the three function.

    1. *]He investigates/ looks at the facts

      *]He decides if a crime/sin has been committed
      *]-]He passes sentence/condemns/-]
 
Abu said:
lakotak

We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but we are commanded by Christ Himself to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.

The rule from Christ is:
“Judge not that you be not judged.” (Mt 7:1)

“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).

“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

St Paul adds:
“Test everything: retain what is good.” (1Thess 5:21).

“The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgement by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15).

“I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgement on the one who has committed this deed…” (1 Cor 5:3; read 1-13).

“I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.” (1 Cor 10:15).

“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1).

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but are commanded to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.
Click to expand...
Matthew, chapter 7:. 1 “Stop judging,* that you may not be judged. 2For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. 3Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? 5You hypocrite,* remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.

Luke6:41Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own? 42How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove that splinter in your eye,’ when you do not even notice the wooden beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! Remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter in your brother’s eye.

Peace
 
Jude 1:9Yet the archangel Michael, when he argued with the devil in a dispute over the body of Moses, did not venture to pronounce a reviling judgment* upon him but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”

Peace
 
We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but we are commanded by Christ Himself to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.
 
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