Judging re: Living Arrangements

[baylee]

How many of you struggle with voicing your opinion on the rights and wrongs of living arrangements (based upon what our Church teaches us)? Do you? Or do you keep quiet?

I just voiced my opinon that living together (vs. married) is wrong…and now I feel guilty that I am judging (heck, I’m not perfect, so who the heck am I to judge?). Any advice on how to deal with my feelings?

Thanks…

 

[Jennifer_J]

We are allowed, even encouraged, to judge the rightness and wrongness of actions. We are not allowed to judge the state of someone’s soul. Objectively, it is usually a sin for people of the opposite sex who are not married to cohabitate. Subjectively can be trickier to deterimine and is best left to the confessional and a priest…so no saying “You are going to hell for living with him/her!” You just can’t know all the circumstances and any mitigating info…

 

[Truly_Beloved]

How many of you struggle with voicing your opinion on the rights and wrongs of living arrangements (based upon what our Church teaches us)? Do you? Or do you keep quiet?

Nope, I don’t keep quiet. My friends/family members know where I stand. I even had a close friend call me last summer and say, “Hey, starting in October, you won’t be able to come visit me, because So-and-So and I are moving in together. I just wanted to let you know, since I know it bugs you.”

It’s tough sometimes, definitely. It’s especially difficult when the couple involved isn’t Catholic (I’m a convert with few Catholic friends). I try to explain my position in the nicest way possible, but only when directly asked for my reasoning/justification. It still hurts people’s feelings, which I feel awful about, but doing the right thing doesn’t always feel good, you know?

We are allowed, even encouraged, to judge the rightness and wrongness of actions. We are not allowed to judge the state of someone’s soul.

This was exactly how it was explained to me, by 3 different confessors, whenever I brought up the issue of “judging.”

 

[Island_Oak]

I don’t generally offer judgements on personal matters if my advice has not first been solicited. Many of my friends are not Catholic and have no moral/religious taboos against living with a member of the opposite sex. Why would someone like that care about what I think of their arrangement?!? Good grief, half the colleges today have co-ed floors, bathrooms, etc.

Remember also that marriage is not required IF the pair is related. How often are brothers/sisters, cousins, etc. looked at judgmentally when doing absolutely nothing wrong. What if male/female roomates, unrelated, are in fact living as “brother and sister?” Who are any of us to judge and comment–even IF you want to start the “near occasion of sin” argument. Given the cost of housing, I know of many college/grad school students who share mixed gender lodging with nary a bit of (name removed by moderator)ropriety. Again, I don’t want to impugn character when it’s absolutely NONE of my business.

 

[noclevername]

We are allowed, even encouraged, to judge the rightness and wrongness of actions. We are not allowed to judge the state of someone’s soul. Objectively, it is usually a sin for people of the opposite sex who are not married to cohabitate. Subjectively can be trickier to deterimine and is best left to the confessional and a priest…so no saying “You are going to hell for living with him/her!” You just can’t know all the circumstances and any mitigating info…

Really? Are you serious? What about this verse?

• But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” * Johm 8:7

 

[rpp]

How many of you struggle with voicing your opinion on the rights and wrongs of living arrangements (based upon what our Church teaches us)? Do you? Or do you keep quiet?

I just voiced my opinon that living together (vs. married) is wrong…and now I feel guilty that I am judging (heck, I’m not perfect, so who the heck am I to judge?). Any advice on how to deal with my feelings?

Thanks…

Beylee, that is not “judging”. When Christ told us not to judge others, He meant that we are not to determine the state of someone else’s soul. On the other hand, we have a powerful moral obligation to correct the sinner. Look at this from Ezekiel:

17 4 Thus the word of the LORD came to me: Son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel. When you hear a word from my mouth, you shall warn them for me.

18 If I say to the wicked man, You shall surely die; and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his wicked conduct so that he may live: that wicked man shall die for his sin, but I will hold you responsible for his death.

19 If, on the other hand, you have warned the wicked man, yet he has not turned away from his evil nor from his wicked conduct, then he shall die for his sin, but you shall save your life.

20 If a virtuous man turns away from virtue and does wrong when I place a stumbling block before him, he shall die. He shall die for his sin, and his virtuous deeds shall not be remembered; but I will hold you responsible for his death if you did not warn him.

21 When, on the other hand, you have warned a virtuous man not to sin, and he has in fact not sinned, he shall surely live because of the warning, and you shall save your own life.

Not only was what you did okay, it is actually a moral obligation and duty that we, as Christians, have. If someone accuses you of “judging” them, (assuming you don’t say things like “You’re going to Hell if you shack up.”) tell them what judging really is and remind that that Christians are required to educate the uninformed and to help lead people away from sin.

Finally, one does not have to be perfect to correct or educate another. That is another myth. For example, if a meth addict tells his little brother “Don’t do meth, it will destroy your life!” Do you think that, because he is a meth addict that he has no right to tell his brother not to make the mistake he did? Is he being hypocritical? Of course not. In fact, his advice is a more powerful statement, even if he is still using meth when he says it.

Keep it up!

 

[roamncatholic]

Re: the “living as brother and sister” argument…

If two people of the opposite sex are living together, but not having sex (and aren’t related, obviously), then at best, they are committing the sin of scandal-- if they’re both Catholic, what does someone else see by the example they are setting? Of course people will assume they are sleeping together!

At worst, they are bringing themselves in to an occasion of sin-- and what’s the saying about playing with fire?

no bueno.

 

[Snerticus]

Really? Are you serious? What about this verse?

*But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” *Johm 8:7

That is talking about judging the person. They were going to kill her because they judged her to be unworthy. I don’t think Jesus would have had a problem if they had repremanded her for committing adultery and then let her go.

We don’t have the right to judge people…only their actions. If we didn’t have the right to judge actions at all, then we shouldn’t be correcting anyone and just keep to ourselves and let the world do what it wants. A lot of people are doing this now thinking that it’s right to let people condemn themselves to Hell.

I don’t think that’s what Jesus had in mind.

God Bless,
Snert

 

[buffalo]

True Christian charity demands fraternal correction.

Fraternal Correction

 

[baylee]

Not only was what you did okay, it is actually a moral obligation and duty that we, as Christians, have. If someone accuses you of “judging” them, (assuming you don’t say things like “You’re going to Hell if you shack up.”) tell them what judging really is and remind that that Christians are required to educate the uninformed and to help lead people away from sin.

Actually, I did not speak with the persons who are living together. In this case, I was discussing another’s situation with other family members…as in “what they are doing is wrong”. Of course, my other family members are not Catholic, so I don’t think they cared for/agreed with my comments.

Finally, one does not have to be perfect to correct or educate another. That is another myth. For example, if a meth addict tells his little brother “Don’t do meth, it will destroy your life!” Do you think that, because he is a meth addict that he has no right to tell his brother not to make the mistake he did? Is he being hypocritical? Of course not. In fact, his advice is a more powerful statement, even if he is still using meth when he says it.

Thanks for this. After making the statements I made, I felt guilty and wrong for doing so because I am not perfect and have not been perfect in my past.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Really? Are you serious? What about this verse?

• But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” * Johm 8:7

Yes, really and seriously. How in the world could you ever teach your children right from wrong if you can’t judge actions? How do you tell whether a person or situation is safe or not? We make just and right judgments all the time.

The verse you chose is out of context. I can point out sin and error without judging someone’s heart or soul. Jesus knew that they were trying to trick him and infact not following the law because they only brought forward the woman. He was calling them on THEIR sin.

 

[Jtrying]

I’m pretty firmly in the “live and let live” camp on this sort of issue. I don’t think it’s right and I’d never do it myself, and if asked I’ll say so. But I believe that God gave us free will and the ability to think and reason, and a conscience to boot – and that we’re each allowed to use them the way we see fit. When consenting and responsible adults decide to share an address, that’s between them and God. And their families.

I wouldn’t go and stay with my young son in tow – I wouldn’t want to expose him to an example of something I personally disapprove of – but I also wouldn’t want those people imposing their beliefs on me if I happen to believe something else.

And in reading this over, it strikes me as a not very Catholic opinion. Huh. Interesting.

 

[rpp]

I’m pretty firmly in the “live and let live” camp on this sort of issue. I don’t think it’s right and I’d never do it myself, and if asked I’ll say so. But I believe that God gave us free will and the ability to think and reason, and a conscience to boot – and that we’re each allowed to use them the way we see fit. When consenting and responsible adults decide to share an address, that’s between them and God. And their families.

I wouldn’t go and stay with my young son in tow – I wouldn’t want to expose him to an example of something I personally disapprove of – but I also wouldn’t want those people imposing their beliefs on me if I happen to believe something else.

And in reading this over, it strikes me as a not very Catholic opinion. Huh. Interesting.

The last paragraph of your post really got my attention. I found it a remarkably humble statement. For that you have earned my respect. Am I wrong, are are you trying to help inform your conscience better? That seems to be the case and if that indeed is the case, I can only say may God grant you the humility and the grace to learn more and help improve your conscience. That is a prayer that I make for myself everyday. May God bless you as you learn.

 

[buffalo]

Thanks for this. After making the statements I made, I felt guilty and wrong for doing so because I am not perfect and have not been perfect in my past.

In this case no one is able to proclaim the truth because we are all not perfect. Christ knew this. One cannot shy away from proclaiming the truth once they found it no matter their imperfections. It should be done in love. The fallen nature of humans does not invalidate the truth of the message.

And when we learn from our own mistakes shouldn’t we want to share this with others?